National Alliance’s Starlee Coleman on Public Charter Schools

TheLearningCurve_StarleeColeman

[00:00:00] Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy

Albert Cheng: Alright. Well, hello everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Learning Curve podcast. I am one of your hosts this week, Albert Cheng from the University of Arkansas. co-hosting with me today is Meredith. Meredith, how’s it going? Good. Thanks for having me back, Albert. It’s good to be here.

Meredith Coolidge: I’m Meredith Coolidge. I am the campaigns manager for Democrats for Education Reform Massachusetts, but I actually used to work for our amazing guest at the Texas Public Charter Schools Association after I completed TFA in Texas. I’m so excited to chat with her today.

Albert Cheng: [00:01:00] That’s right. That’s right. So I’m looking forward to a conversation on charter schools. Yeah. What’s the skinny these days, you know, so, But before we get to that let’s talk some news Meredith. I don’t know if you know, but I like to talk about math education a lot.

It’s just, I mean, not just a former math teacher, but I just love math too much. So I did see a story about high school math and unfortunately it’s kind of, uh, disconcerting one. I don’t know if you ever had the experience to take some of these math competition exams. Is that something you’ve done in the past before?

Meredith Coolidge: I have not. Tell me more.

Albert Cheng: Well, sure. Yeah, I know. Happy to tell you more. This is um, so the American Mathematics Competitions is an organization that they develop and administer math exams. And these are contests that they give to high school students. And I remember taking one years ago and, you know, if you do well enough, you advance to the, you’re invited to take another more difficult exam and.you make it all the way to the end, you can represent our country as a math Olympian. So it’s quite an honor. But this is a story that broke about some cheating that happened on this exam about how some of the questions were being released ahead of time and giving some students an unfair advantage.

So that was a bit sad to see. And I don’t know what to really make of it. You know, I, you know, I think understand there’s some pressure to do well on these exams, because I know that certainly for college admissions you do get a leg up on your application if you participate in these exams and perform well.

But it’s a little sad to see that what I think should be something we do for, for its own sake, for the joy of solving math problems has gotten corrupted by this. So, anyway, I hope it gets worked out. And, generally I hope we can not lose sight of doing mathematics for a long time. For the sake of doing mathematics. I mean, it’s too beautiful, too fun of a thing to lose to other forces like that. 

Meredith Coolidge:That is such a shame. Is it, is there, what is the result right now? Is it paused or….? 

Albert Cheng: Well, it’s still going. And, and, the [00:03:00] AMC has you know, made some accommodations and, and, they’ve responded by letting some students into the next round, for instance, who probably got pushed out because of other students who, their scores inflated with by cheating.

So, they’re, thinking through this and, and trying to figure out ways to police this better. So. Yeah, I wish them well, you know, hopefully they can tighten their control over this and preserve this thing, which is actually, as you’ll see in the article, it’s, been going on for three quarters of a century.

So, yeah, I hope this can go on for another three quarters of a century, at least. That’s really interesting. Yeah. I’m, I’m curious to see what you found this week. Okay, so, as I was reading through this again this morning, I actually realized that this is the type of article we could probably spend an entire episode talking about.

Meredith Coolidge: So, I’m going to try to stay as concise as possible, but my story is on last week’s article in the Boston Globe on the declining number of applicants to Boston’s exam schools. So, [00:04:00] you, Albert, for those of you outside of Boston who might be listening or otherwise unaware We have three exam schools in the Boston Public Schools, the Boston Latin School, the Boston Latin Academy, and then the O’Brient School.

They’re three of the top high schools actually in the country. And exam schools are similar to magnet schools that you might find in other parts of the country. So, The story is that the number of applicants has dropped by 50% in the past four years. And this is due to a couple of different factors, notably the overhaul of the admissions process in 2020.

So there was this effort to increase socio-economic and racial diversity, I think especially around the pandemic and, you know, trying to test in person. But now instead of a citywide competition for admissions, it’s now based on geography. So. Boston is now divided into eight tiers and a specific number of seats are allocated to students within each tier, depending on where they live.

so this obviously, you know, changed the entire name of the game here. But this decline in applications really points to a few different trends in Boston that are important to watch that I, you know, deduced from this article. Obviously there’s a declining number of students leaving the city but interestingly, the article points out that.

The application drop is actually outpacing the number of students leaving Boston. So that’s interesting. Yeah, that’s a factor, but not the factor. But it really speaks to a larger problem around communications and recruitment for the exam school. So this new policy, it did achieve its goal of opening up spots to encourage racial and socioeconomic diversity But there doesn’t seem to be a really, from my purview um, great comms plan for ensuring family and potential applicants have the information they need.

And interestingly, this is mostly anecdotal, but folks in more affluent areas are simply moving out of the city or applying to private schools instead because of the increased competition for spots in their zip code. So, you know, I think what the article gets at is while there’s Some demand still here for exam [00:06:00] schools, you know, 600 kids, I think, who were eligible didn’t receive admissions last year.

More definitely needs to be done to ensure families have the access to the information they need to ensure high quality education for all kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess this all, you know, speaks the old lesson of you know, when we come up with policies there’s all sorts of unintended consequences or unforeseen forces that we never anticipated.

And so, yeah, certainly, as you said making sure schools beef up recruitment you know, trying to account for how other folks would react. Yeah, these are all I guess these are part things to think about. And well, I, wish the exam schools some success and certainly for those who are looking for that opportunity I hope they get that opportunity or if not that something else that that’s going to suit them.

Yeah, I guess, you know, name of the game is expanding educational opportunity all kids. And so walk in that direction, head in that direction, really. one other piece I’ll just, I’ll quickly add that the article actually doesn’t address, but I do gather from my own work here in Massachusetts is we have to ensure we’re, you know, getting to the [00:07:00] root of the problem and that there are vast differences in the academic preparedness across elementary schools in Boston you know, to that point the new admissions criteria, more heavily weighted It’s grades over exam scores, which, you know, we know, and I probably should put a dollar in the jar for every time I say this, but subjective and unreliable measurements of academic readiness.

So, know, focusing on that root of the problem is, is another piece of this whole big, policy issue. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, like you said, we could probably spend the whole show unpacking all of this. But alas, not this week. Instead we’re going to talk to Starley Coleman, who is the new president and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools.

So stick around. for our conversation with her after the break. Can’t wait.[00:08:00] 

Starley Coleman is the president and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools. Most recently, Starley served as CEO of the Texas Public Charter Schools Association. And prior to that Coleman founded School Forward LLC, a public affairs firm in Washington, D. C. that advances [00:09:00] education reform policies.

She has appeared on nationally syndicated radio and TV programs, including CNN, C SPAN’s Washington Journal, Fox News and Fox Business, Wall Street Journal Live, NPR’s 1A, and The Lars Larson Show. Starley earned a Bachelor of Arts in English at Arizona State University. Starley, it’s a pleasure to meet you and have you on the show.

Welcome. 

Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. Well, let’s listeners get to know you a little bit. You’ve got more than 20 years of experience turning public policy ideas into laws through strategic public affairs and PR campaigns, grassroots engagement. Coalition development you’ve blocked a number of harmful legislative efforts, but you’ve also contributed to the passage of dozens of bills and state legislatures, Congress, the ballot box.

I guess we, you know, we could go on but I’ll let you go on. want you to give us a quick [00:10:00] overview of your background and other formative professional experiences. And also of course you how did you become interested in K 12 education reform and. charter schools in the first place.

Yeah, thanks for that. Well, you ran through my bio, so I don’t feel like I need to go too much more into that. But yeah, I’ve been in and around politics and policy for about 25 years. Including a 12 year stint at the Goldwater Institute in Phoenix, which some of your listeners may be familiar with, and a previous stop at the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools about a decade ago, and you know, all of my experience in my career.

 while I’ve worked in a number of policy areas, all of it really has been around kind of leading up and leading to education and you know, I love this country, and I believe in the promise of America but fulfilling that promise relies [00:11:00] on every child being able to be a full participant in the American economy, and that cannot happen if kids can’t read and they can’t do basic math and for a whole lot of Children in America, they’re assigned public school is not working for them for whatever reason.

Whatever. And there’s a lot of them, right. But for whatever reason, and I believe that one of the most fundamental freedoms that we owe parents and one of the deepest responsibilities we have to Children is to make sure that Children are able to be in the school setting that is right for them. And for so many kids over the last 30 years, public charter schools have been the answer to that.

And I love getting to work every day to it. protect and advance policies that are tangibly improving the lives of children and families. And you know, when I think about how I want to spend my career, I can’t think of, I cannot think of another way that I’d rather do it than this. [00:12:00] Great. Great.

Well, let’s talk a little bit more about some of that work. You know, first up with the Texas Public Charter School Association. you were its CEO most recently, and then under your leadership support for public charter schools grew considerably with, lawmakers across the state. So could you talk more about K 12 education and public charter schools in Texas? And also talk about just the various growing successful efforts really to expand both public and private school choice in the Lone Star State.

Well, I still live in Texas. I live in Austin and it’s really, it’s an interesting place to live on education policy for a number of reasons, Texas has the largest K 12 student population in the country. One in 10 school children in America goes to school in Texas, and it is incredibly and increasingly diverse.

And that brings a lot of really interesting challenges. It brings a lot of really interesting opportunity to really examine what policies are effective in moving outcomes for kids and [00:13:00] Texas also our state commissioner for education here. Has a significant appetite for pushing the public education community in really important ways around literacy, around incentive based compensation for teachers, et cetera.

So, so I’m a fan of his. I think he’s, I think by and large, he’s done a very good job. Charters are growing like crazy here. 86, 000 new students over the past five years in Texas, which is a lot. 80 percent of charter students in Texas are black and Latino, 65 percent are low income and they are outperforming their peers in all subjects, in all grades.

there’s a huge array of models in Texas charter models, classical models, and high rigor models in particular Have the single largest demand in the state, even among low income families. And so I think that’s really interesting because it tells you a lot about what American families want today.

 They want choices and they want choices where their kids are going to be pushed. And [00:14:00] I think that’s a good, I think that’s a good thing for the country. I think that’s a good thing for kids. And I think it’s really interesting be in Texas where there’s this, you know, sort of epicenter of charter growth in a lot of ways.

There’s also been a push in Texas to modernize. inter district transfer policies. Texas has some really bad transfer policy laws on the books today. One of them is that districts do not have to allow transfers. And if they do, they can handpick the students. And they can charge tuition, which is so interesting and such.

I mean, you can write, you don’t even need me to tell you like what the outcome of that is right there. There’s our friends over at the Texas public policy foundation have done some really good work taking a look at who is actually approved to transfer into our highest performing districts in the state.

And I bet you’d be surprised at who gets expelled. Um, I know that would shock everybody. [00:15:00] These are bad policies for kids. And the TPPF and a number of others have been leading the work here in Texas to push lawmakers to change those policies to make sure that all districts are required.

To have open enrollment policies and to stop allowing them to charge tuition. So, I hope lawmakers in Texas will revisit those proposals. It is time to get these back policies off the books here. And then of course, There is a huge battle going on over private school choice. Although I guess the war has been won by one side.

 Our primary election season in Texas was about private school choice and the governor took on Republicans in his own party who were anti private school choice. He, it went through his campaign apparatus and a number of other organizations American Federation for Children and, and a couple others.

They defeated a dozen anti private school choice Republican, state [00:16:00] legislators in primary elections, and they now have the votes to pass a private school choice law. So this is happening in Texas. we’re a holdout among red states. And our legislature, when it reconvenes in January, I would expect that this would be a very early bill that is passed.

And, you know, I can’t really see a scenario at this point because of the way the political you know, the political dynamic worked out here. I can’t really see a scenario where private school choice doesn’t pass in this coming legislative session. I mean, you know, parents had, you know, This is what the primary elections were about here and parents and voters had a really clear choice.

You either vote for the people who want it or you vote for the people who don’t. And they overwhelmingly voted for the people who want it. and so parents want it. Right. And I think lawmakers are going to have to do it. It was a really clear message from voters.

And then so, so there are a lot of states where there is a private school [00:17:00] choice program in place alongside a thriving charter community. And I would expect that that trend will hold in Texas as well. I can see our charter community is very strong here, very well positioned to navigate a private school choice program coming online.

Great. Great. Well, let’s stay tuned and see what happens come the new year. Exciting times. Let me ask you the next question here. And, I mean, you’re no stranger to the fact that public charter schools have been controversial much like many other education policy topics.

But in recent years, you know, the politics around charter schools have become a little bit more complicated and contentious. Certainly as the political landscape in D. C. And across the country has become more divided. And so, where does this left, right, public school choice coalition stand now and what needs to be done to bridge political divisions around charters? 

good question. So let me say this first. Charters are not [00:18:00] controversial among parents and voters. Parents across the political spectrum, across the income spectrum, regardless of race, regardless of background, parents support charter schools. They support the ability for parents to pick charter schools.

They support more charter schools. They support charter schools. Voters support charter schools. The only place that it is controversial or contingent is among elected officials themselves. And so I will say in that space between elected officials, The coalition is fragile. That is true. And part of it is because we, the charter community, don’t do ourselves any favors.

Some of us in the charter community actively antagonize Republicans. And at the same time, we don’t do the work with allied political organizations to help make sure that pro charter Democrats are actually winning their elections. That is weird. That is a weird thing. We do where we’re like unhelpful to the [00:19:00] people who actually vote for pro charter policies.

And then we don’t make sure that people on the other team who would vote for the pro charter policies get elected. That is weird. And we have to stop doing that. So we need to handle our political business better across the political spectrum. We need to work with allies who engage in electoral activity to make sure that pro charter candidates are winning their elections regardless of their party.

That has to happen. And then we have, we need to remember who we’re actually in a fight with and stay focused. Right. We are not in a fight with people who support private school choice programs. That is not our, you know, sort of quote unquote enemy, the people that we should be fighting with are people who want to shut down charter schools, not people who want to open other schools.

That’s not about us. and we need to make sure that we’re staying focused on the fights that are actually about charters. And when we get disciplined about who our friends are and making friends with more people then we will keep our coalition strong.

And that’s exactly what we did in Texas. and as a result, we have a stronger bipartisan coalition of [00:20:00] lawmakers in Texas than we’ve ever had before. And that’s because we, you know, we, we took care of our political business and that needs to happen everywhere. Yeah. Well, here’s to more coalition building in our political life.

 Yeah. Well, let me ask you one more question before I turn it over to Meredith. You alluded to this certainly in Texas, but nationwide, even, you know, over the last decade public charter school enrollment has nearly doubled right now it’s about 3.7 million students attending roughly 8, 000 charter schools and campuses.

Although if the numbers are updated again, please, please let us know. But you know, what I wanted to ask was if you could talk about the states that have experienced the largest growth in the last and on the flip side, the ones that have lagged behind and in particular what roles do politics and, charter school quality play in, public charter school expansion?

Yeah, it’s remarkable. So, coming to the National Alliance, like one of the things that’s been really interesting to me is getting a better understanding of what the growth. And [00:21:00] enrollment landscape looks like around the country, and it is so interesting. Charters are the only public school, the only types of public schools that are growing in enrollment right now.

And that is, that is happening across the country. And we continue to see significant number a significant sort of a surge in enrollment among Hispanic students. So 1 in every 3 charter school students in America today is Hispanic, which is super interesting and mirrors the demographic of America, right?

We are an increasingly Hispanic country and particularly, of course, in the Southwest. So thinking about specifically like where, where are we seeing big growth? Where are we not seeing big growth? So big growth happening, of course, in states where we started with a really small number of schools or students in the first place.

So like we call these like our sort of emerging states. So, you know, you can think of those States as the states where new charter laws have [00:22:00] passed. And so there has, you know, recently been, you know, zero charter schools and now there’s a handful or whatever, or like really small number of schools.

 And now there’s more so Alabama, Iowa Mississippi, Washington Those are the states where we’re seeing big growth numbers, South Carolina, Rhode Island and then in some of our more established markets like Texas and Florida, still continuing to see big surges in enrollment.

over the last couple of years in those states. The states where we’re lagging behind are the handful of states where we still don’t have a charter law passed. Those are uh, interesting combination of states, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska. So all neighbors and Vermont. Um, interesting grouping there.

We at the National Alliance continue to chip away at the states where we don’t have a charter law on the books to try to make progress. We’re going to be focused [00:23:00] on North Dakota in 2025 to try to get a charter law passed there. but generally speaking, charter growth is happening all over the country.

in pretty much all corners, of the country, except, of course, Vermont and the very narrow North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska. Well, thank you, Starly. This has been such an interesting conversation so far. Really privileged to hear from you on all of this. The fundamental policy bargain of public charter schools has always been more school autonomy in exchange for more accountability.

Charter critics often claim that on average charter performance is only slightly better than that of traditional public schools, something that you sort of already alluded to, especially in Texas. How do you respond to those claims and what can charters and their supporters do to hold the schools accountable for student performance?

Well, those claims are wrong. So that’s how I respond. Our friends over at Credo at Stanford in their most recent [00:24:00] national landscape review of charter performance found that 83 percent of public charter school students perform better than their peers in reading and 75 percent perform better in math.

I mentioned a minute ago about Texas, Texas charter students are outperforming their peers. In every grade in every subject, and what’s even more remarkable about those stats is that the kids we serve in charters are overwhelmingly from the most challenging backgrounds. So not only do our students outperform their peers, but because of the rigor that charters offer to their students, our low income, non English speaking kids are often outperforming middle class white kids.

So. That’s amazing. And then charters that serve a more middle class demographic are delivering outstanding results schools like basis routinely top the best high school lists in the country. So charters are holding up our end of the bargain on outcomes. Hands down. [00:25:00] But what I want to talk about is how the government is not holding up its end of the bargain on autonomy in every state, even the most charter friendly red states like Texas.

There is a slow and steady chipping away at charter autonomy. In Texas, we spent two years working on a comprehensive rollback of red tape after we found more than a dozen examples of rules and regulations on the books that didn’t have any basis in state statute. Now, if that’s happening in a place like Texas where the climate is good for charters, imagine what it’s like in a state where the climate is bad.

And of course, it’s the same story at the federal level. So we are routinely trying at the National Alliance. I was just in a meeting with one of my colleagues where we were talking about resolving an issue that emerged at the Federal Department of Education because someone decided that the language of a statute and an existing rule means something different today than it meant last year.

So . this like sort of regulatory [00:26:00] creep is happening at all levels. And I feel like that’s where we really need to have a conversation around the charter bargain. It’s not about quality and outcomes. It’s about the guarantee of autonomy. That makes a lot of sense. That’s very, very interesting, especially as accountability is such a big, you know, topic right now.

So, one of the big charter school policy debates is academic quality amid rapid expansion um, in the number of schools and students enrolled. So would you discuss the role that single and multiple authorizers play in terms of academic quality and diversity of pedagogical approaches to educating students and which states do the best job around chartering different kinds of schools?

Love that last question in particular. Okay. Single versus multiple authorizers is not the issue on quality. It’s authorizers not holding schools accountable. Authorizers should close schools that have a multi year track record of [00:27:00] underperformance or fiscal mismanagement, period. That’s what needs to happen.

Whether there’s a single authorizer in a state or multiple authorizers in a state, it doesn’t matter. That is separate. So holding a school accountable For performance is separate and apart from the need to have strong policies in place that facilitate and allow for charter growth to meet community need and demand.

And that does include having multiple authorizer options. There needs to be an option for a charter school applicant when politics are in their way. for having me. You know, in many states, the first line of authorizing is through a school district, and we know the stats on that. It is really hard for charters to get approved by the districts you.

Where their buildings would be located. It is hard, and there needs to be some [00:28:00] kind of outlet when the school board is in the way of new public school options opening for kids in their community. So, we don’t want to conflate those two things of like, if there’s multiple authorizers, it can lead to bad outcomes.

Like, That’s not the relationship, right? The relationship is if the authorizer isn’t doing its job, holding the schools accountable. So to the second question you asked about what state is doing a really good job of really supporting model diversity.

And I’ll call out Alabama in this case. So Alabama is a fairly new state. But a very fast growing charter state, and they have some really innovative school models in a state that is largely what I think most of us would consider sort of, rural or suburban slash ex urban population.

They have a university charter school, which is located on the campus of the University of West Alabama, which offers a like a project in place based learning with an emphasis on stem. They have a school that has a day and evening academy to give flexibility. To students who are maybe like overage or undercredited or maybe parents themselves who need the flexibility of evening classes or a half day class.

They have in Alabama a school that has created a student. safe haven and environment for LGBTQ students. They have a school called Alabama Aerospace and Aviation High School, which offers a pathway for students to have careers in aviation. So for a young charter, community.

They have a very interesting array of charter models. And so I think what we’re seeing in Alabama is exciting. And hopefully just an example of what’s to come in other states where a new charter community comes online. Wow. That is the, especially the point about Alabama. That is so interesting.

So [00:30:00] that is really, I’m gonna have to look into that more. That’s so interesting. I’m glad to hear that. In recent years, we’ve seen massive K 12 education expenditures after Race to the Top, ESSA, and now, you know, post pandemic with the COVID relief ESSER funds. But NAEP reading and math scores have declined and achievement gaps are largely unchanged or widening.

Can you talk a little bit about the strengths and weaknesses of federal K 12 spending and policymaking and where public charter schools fit into this national policy landscape, especially as private school choice is expanding in many states, including Texas? okay. Money isn’t everything. But it’s not nothing.

You, you can’t do a school with no dollars. so schools need to be adequately funded. And what that means is probably context in place. specific in many circumstances. Real estate is more expensive in New York City than in Alabama. And so like, do they need the same amount of money for facilities?

Probably not. so [00:31:00] it’s hard to say. What’s the right amount of money you know, that should be attached to a kid when they show up at a charter school or their public school district? I don’t know the answer to that, and I don’t think we can have a baseline that fits across the country.

But what is more important than the money is the strong policies that are needed around reading and math. Incentive based teacher compensation and school accountability. Those are the policies that move the needle for kids, regardless of what that baseline level of spending needs to be in a particular state.

The role of policy makers is to make sure That the policy framework that public schools are operating within is holding the adults accountable to making sure that Children are coming out of school with literacy and numeracy skills. And we [00:32:00] have lots of data now across the country around strong policy ideas.

that can be replicated across the states, regardless of political context, that move the needle for kids. And that is what policymakers need to be focused on. And of course money needs to be attached to that. over the last couple of years, many states have adopted science of reading laws and policies, and that is good for children and long overdue.

And so. Money needs to be attached to that, right? Their schools are going to have to retrain teachers. They’re going to have to buy new materials that costs money and, we should pay for that. But That doesn’t mean that, and I do not support, and I don’t think anybody does, like, just sort of blank check policies to districts to, you know, just give me some more money and don’t ask me any questions is Not that is not good for kids.

And so it’s the policies [00:33:00] that we need to be focused on before we’re focused on the money. makes a lot of sense. Finally, this, as you probably know, is a question near and dear to my heart. Many states have a number of very high quality public charter schools and networks. That said, the number of high quality charter schools seems to be stagnating or declining in blue states, like where I’m sitting in Massachusetts, where the teachers unions are most powerful, even as the demand for charter schools rises.

Would you talk a little bit about the political dynamics within the Democratic Party regarding support for charters and what can be done to reinvigorate charters and charter schools? support in blue states? Okay, I am so very glad we are talking about this because this is a perception that I also had that charter growth and enrollment was stagnating in blue states and I literally did not know until yesterday that I was wrong and I was so glad to learn this.

So I just want to say I have a chart up in front of me where we have looked at every single state where there is a charter law on the books and charter schools open and operating. And there are only a handful of states in the entire country where charter enrollment has declined.

And it is largely because the overall student population in the state, like Illinois, for example, has just like plummeted. Right. So even in really difficult blue state environments, Massachusetts, there is actually slight enrollment growth, California enrollment growth, Virginia enrollment growth, Colorado enrollment growth, New Jersey and significant double digit enrollment growth, even in DC where 50 percent of the kids are already in charters, enrollment growth, New York enrollment growth.

So we have a perception. That the momentum has diminished for charters because the opposition to charters within the Democratic Party has gotten so loud and emboldened, but it’s not working right. Like they’re [00:35:00] out there doing their thing, you know, being angry, putting policies on the table, trying everything they possibly can to slow it down.

And it’s not working. Even in blue states growth is still happening. And so that was really encouraging to me. But I will say work we need to do to reinvigorate charter growth and charter support in blue states is largely important. You know, I know nobody like is excited about ed reform because they want to engage in a political battle like I know that but it is right.

And so, like, the work that needs to be done is around addressing the political dynamics within the Democratic Party, which is the overwhelmingly largest contributor to Democratic candidates in this country is the teachers union and we are their policy target.

And so when you have a dynamic like that, where, the internal mechanism of the democratic party and the major [00:36:00] funding source inside the democratic party is extremely misaligned with what we are trying to do and growth is still happening, like That’s actually something to celebrate. And so how do we fix that within the Democratic Party?

I don’t know. I’d leave that to my friends at, at DIVR and other groups to try to figure out. We’re a nonpartisan organization, so I’m not sure. But what I can tell you is that politicians, regardless of party, want two things. They want to be loved and adored and they want to be reelected. And if we’re not making sure, if we’re not making sure that we are loving and adoring them and making sure that they get reelected then we’re not doing our job so that they can do theirs.

So, you know, this is definitely a political question, not a policy question. That’s a great response. Lots to think about. You know, on that episode last week, we talked about the MCAS ballot question here, which is being led by the teachers union. So you’re definitely spot on with the inner workings of the democratic party.

But thank you so much, Starley. I’ll turn it back over to Albert. Well, Starley thanks so much for being on the show with us. really insightful conversation and a huge pleasure to hear what’s going on, not only just in Texas, but nationally and where uh, charter schools are going.

So really appreciate you taking the time to be with us. Thank you so much for the invitation. I hope you have a great week.[00:38:00] 

Well, that was uh, really exciting to hear from Starley about what’s on tap and what’s going on at the National Alliance for public charter schools. Yeah, it definitely was. She is just such a visionary, and I can’t wait to see what great things she does for national charter advocacy.

Yep, wish her well, and the charter school community as well. So that takes us to the end of our show. But before we officially close out we have the tweet of the week. This one is something about pioneer, senior fellow, Mike Goldstein. He has been doing a series of interviews [00:39:00] and short podcast episodes.

On homeschooling and micro schooling. He’s actually gone around and chatted with lots of families that have chosen this, this form of education for their kids. So, anyway, tweets homeschooling journeys, join Curious Mike as he explores how parents use education savings accounts. For everything from algebra tutoring to science through skateboards.

It’s a six episode deep dive into the future of education. So, look out for the first episode that will drop. Looks like September 5th. Meredith um, I just want to thank you for co hosting with me. On this episode, it was really a pleasure to run the show with you. So great.

Thanks for having me, Albert. And great to meet you. And look forward to doing it next time. That’s right. And speaking of next time we’re going to have Prita Das from the New York times, who is also the biographer of Bill Gates. So I hope to see you next week on a new episode of the Learning Curve.