AFC’s Denisha Allen on School Choice & Black Minds Matter

AFC’s Denisha Allen on School Choice & Black Minds Matter

[00:00:00] Alisha Searcy: Music Welcome back to the Learning Curve Podcast. I am your co host, Alisha Thomas Searcy, and it’s great to be back. I’m excited about our show today and excited about my co host, Walt Blanks. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:36] Walter Blanks: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited. Any conversations about education, I am so there. So thank you so much for having me today.

[00:00:43] Alisha Searcy: Same here. Absolutely. And why don’t you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself before we jump into our stories of the week.

[00:00:50] Walter Blanks: Yeah, so I benefited from a school choice program and it really put me on this massive policy fast track. So I’ve been in the education space for probably the last 15 years or so, just sharing my own experience and advocating for parents and families to be in the driver’s seat of their child’s education, whatever that may look like.

[00:01:09] And so I’ve been doing it with the American Federation for Children for the past five years now. So I’ve recently moved to Nashville, Tennessee, where I’m continuing that work and learning the landscape and making friends and influencing people and loving every, every second of it.

[00:01:25] Alisha Searcy: That is wonderful. And as our listeners know, I work with Democrats for Education Reform. I’m the president of the Southern Region and we’re doing a little bit of work in Tennessee. So Walt, you and I should talk a little bit more about your work in Nashville and maybe you can update me on what’s happening there.

[00:01:41] Walter Blanks: That’d be great. There’s a lot of work to be done here in the state, so we need all hands on deck, so we’ll definitely have to connect.

[00:01:47] Alisha Searcy: Absolutely. Well, again, we’re excited to have you and excited to have our guest for the day. Before we get into that, though, it’s time for our Stories of the Week. I’ve talked about this before, but I think our listeners will come to know it’s something that I’m very passionate about. And it is a story entitled, Federal Guidelines on Cell Phone Use in Schools Expected Soon.

[00:02:11] And it’s from Jackie DeFusco. And so the reason that I’m bringing this up again, we talked about it before and it is a big conversation. I’m sure you’ve been hearing about it, Walt. Lots of school districts around the country have passed some guidelines around banning cell phones. And I understand it. I’m a former superintendent.

[00:02:32] I get it. But what concerns me and what I appreciate about this particular article, I should say, is our Center of Education, I think, is taking a measured approach. So when he’s talking about setting some federal guidelines, he’s saying we need a balance between how do we keep students focused in classrooms, but also how do we use technology to leverage education.

[00:02:57] I appreciate him saying this in this particular article, because I do not hear enough of that second piece. And I’m very interested to hear what you think about this, Walt, but I will tell you, as a parent and as an educator, I am not here for this cell phone ban. I understand what the research says, and I believe in being led by the research and led by the facts.

[00:03:20] So, it’s not that I’m ignoring that. I understand that, you know, kids who have cell phones, they get notifications all day long. I think it’s something in the hundreds. That’s what the research says. But I think the point that is missed here too much. is that we are in the digital age. You and I will sit together for the next few minutes.

[00:03:39] Our cell phones are right next to us. We don’t function in this world without cell phones, but somehow we’re telling kids who are digital natives that you should go without your cell phone for six to eight hours a day and just forget about what’s happening in the rest of the world. And I think the way we should be thinking about this is how do we use telephones?

[00:03:59] How do we use technology to engage students? If we know that. They’d rather be on TikTok, as an example. How do I turn TikTok into a learning tool? It doesn’t have to be that, but there are a bunch of creative, smart people who are smarter than me who can help us figure out how to incorporate technology.

[00:04:18] But here’s the other piece. While I’m concerned about the fact that in the world of school shootings, right, I live in Georgia. We had an awful, horrific school shooting last week, and As a parent, I’m wondering, what is the world going to be like if kids don’t have access to cell phones where there’s an emergency at school? And so, while the research may say one thing about distraction and how kids learn, we have to live in this world where one of our candidates running for office says that this is a fact of life.

[00:04:51] Walter Blanks: I completely agree. We live in the digital age where, I mean, even as an adult myself, it’s very hard to go. An hour, let alone six and a half or seven hours without my cell phone. And we have access to so much information and things out there. And it has to be a balance, right? Of course, kids are going to be distracted, you know, with technology and all of those things. But we live in a world now where we have the entire. world in the palm of our hands, essentially.

[00:05:20] Alisha Searcy: Yeah.

[00:05:21] Walter Blanks: And using that as a tool to reflect our society, I think is super important and not just shutting it down because it’s a hard thing to manage. I don’t think that’s the answer either. I visited some schools where they’re using. You know, virtual reality to learn, or they’re, they’re coding, they’re doing robotics, they’re using technology that reflects our society, which I always say that, unfortunately, our education system as a whole doesn’t reflect the current society that we live in.

[00:05:47] And instead of seeing it as a distraction, I really see it as an opportunity for students to start learning about important technical skills early on, right? Before they leave high school, before they leave middle school. Uh, in the early 2010s when I was in school, our school just blocked specific sites that we couldn’t access if we were on the school Wi Fi.

[00:06:10] And, you know, kids today are savvy, they’ll just, you know, turn off the Wi Fi and use their, you know, cellular data and get around, all that kind of stuff. But even that, that shows that kids are, are problem solvers, right? They’re determined, they’re going to get, you know, whatever they want out of their phones.

[00:06:27] But now, as a father to a six month old baby You know, if he’s in school, I don’t want to have to wait three hours after there’s some kind of threat to find out that my child may be in danger, and having a cell phone for him to be able to communicate with me and say, hey dad, this is what’s going on, I’m safe, or I’m not safe, right?

[00:06:47] You talked about what happened in Georgia. I live about 15 minutes from the Covenant School here in Nashville, and that was an absolute whirlwind for the city and for the state, and so parents need to be able to communicate with their kids. Students need to be exposed to those things, and instead of seeing it as a deterrent, use technology as a way to keep kids safe.

[00:07:09] engage to keep them excited about their learning. I think there’s a lot of opportunities there and maybe from a policy perspective, just banning it may be the easiest thing, but we need policymakers who are willing to have those hard conversations and figure out ways to To really make it work for, for everyone.

[00:07:27] And I don’t think it’s just a single issue of banning the cell phones. You’re talking about communication. You’re talking about learning. You’re talking about all these things. And there has to be some compromise and some balance for sure. So I agree with you entirely on this particular issue.

[00:07:40] Alisha Searcy: And some innovation. So thank you for that. And you can come back anytime to co host with me since you agree with me on this issue.

[00:07:48] Walter Blanks: Great. Great.

[00:07:50] Alisha Searcy: So let’s hear about your story for the week.

[00:07:53] Walter Blanks: Yeah, so I was actually really, really super excited about this one. This is from FOX 13 in Memphis, Jeremy Pierre, and the title of it is Promise Academy Celebrates 20 Years of Education in Memphis.

[00:08:06] And so working in education reform, working in politics as a whole, you typically hear Everything that’s going wrong, everything that’s not working well, and especially in Memphis when it comes around education, there are typically not many good news stories or conversations out there around that topic, and so reading this one, as soon as I saw it, it really, not just made me excited, but hopeful for that city, but Promise Academy is actually one of Tennessee’s first charter schools, and one of Memphis first charter schools as well.

[00:08:37] Thank you. They’re celebrating their 20th anniversary, and they’ve seen significant success in students both in and out of the classroom. The students are doing well, they’re thriving. It’s an educational model that works, and in my opinion should be replicated, not just Uh, across the state of Tennessee, but across the country, we have a lot of conversations about, do charter schools work, and, and you know, all, all of those things, but this is a clear model, and every school isn’t perfect for every kid, but I think there are a lot of really good things that can be implemented and copied and replicated, but the thing that I find really, really cool about this, and it gets talked about quite a bit, but not nearly enough, in my opinion, is that is that Promise Academy has placed over a hundred black and brown men in the classrooms, impacting over 30 percent of the students in the county. That’s huge. Yeah, yeah. And we talk about the impact that having Black leaders, particularly Black men, in the classroom, not just as, you know, the janitor or the custodian, but actually wearing the coats. Right, right. Playing a significant role in the lives of these young men and women, regardless of their race or where they come from.

[00:09:54] It’s super, super important, and a hundred, a hundred, I mean, I think about the school I graduated from, I think it might have only been probably two or three Black staff members, and they were the coach, they were the janitor, they were the athletic director, um, and thinking about dealing with life issues or academic issues, you know, ?anißtasåkar.

[00:10:15] Having that is super, super important, and I fully believe that majority of their success has to be attributed to those men in those positions leading that classroom. And so, I mean, you’re, you’re in Georgia. Are you seeing anything similar to that in the state? Is there a lack of that, or what are you seeing from your part of the state?

[00:10:33] Alisha Searcy: Yeah, it’s definitely a problem. One of my friends, Curtis Valentine, runs a group called Black Men Teach, and it’s all about exactly what you’re talking about, and understanding that you need to have the presence of Black males in classrooms for Black students, but all students, right, because of their experiences, you know, the exposure that students have to see all types of people, standing in front of them.

[00:10:56] And so in Georgia, it’s a problem. We don’t, I don’t know of a school. Well, let me take that back. I know there are a couple of KIPP schools in Atlanta that are very intentional about hiring Black men. I visited a classroom a few weeks ago and It was a co taught class with two Black males, very powerful to watch.

[00:11:15] And so to your point, I think when you’re intentional about diversity in the classroom, recognizing and embracing the differences, you know, that different cultures bring and different genders bring to the classroom, it’s really powerful and important. And I think to your point about The school itself, there’s a lot to be learned after 20 years, right, of running a charter school. So I’m also very interested to see what lessons they have to teach for the rest of us who want to see more public charter schools in our state.

[00:11:43] Walter Blanks: Yeah, I think, I think it’s a really great opportunity. We often talk about the staff makeup or the teacher makeup across the country where it’s like, I mean, I forget the number now, but it’s probably north of 90 percent of teachers are white women.

[00:11:58] And that’s, you know, that’s just, that’s just the way that it is, right? It doesn’t have to be that way forever. But also thinking about, you know, going a little deeper and thinking about, okay, how do we incentivize teachers? Black men, in particular, to take up the teacher profession, right? We’ve seen in the past 10 years massive teacher shortages for a lot of reasons, but particularly in in the Black community.

[00:12:22] And so creating incentives, creating reasons, creating a little bit more autonomy For these Black teachers, Black administrators, I mean, across the board, to really run their schools the way that they need to be ran, I think is a conversation that we should be having just as much as the education reform conversation.

[00:12:42] I don’t think you can really solve one without the other. without solving the other. And so I would love to see more national conversations about that. But honestly, it starts on the ground and Memphis is doing a great job of that so far.

[00:12:56] Alisha Searcy: Excellent. Well, that was a great article and I appreciate you bringing that forth and also talking about this cell phone ban. So both conversations are absolutely important that we’ve got to continue. And speaking of continuing, it’s time for us to take a break. I’m excited about our Our guest for today, we have Denisha Merriweather of American Federation for Children and Black Minds Matter. I know you guys know each other well, so we’ll look forward to our interview when we get back.

[00:13:24] Walter Blanks: Sounds great. Thank you so much.

[00:13:37] Alisha Searcy: Denisha Allen, formerly Merriweather, is a director of public relations and content marketing at the American Federation for Children and founder of Black Minds Matter. Denisha previously served as school choice and youth liaison. to the Secretary of Education of the U. S. Department of Education. She’s a Florida tax credit scholarship graduate and now sits on the board of directors for Step Up for Students.

[00:14:02] She received her master’s degree in social work from the University of South Florida and bachelor’s degree in interdisciplinary social science. Along the way, Denisha has become a national symbol for school choice, headlining events with the U. S. President, Florida governors, and other advocates for school choice.

[00:14:19] Denisha has shared her story across the country and has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, PragerU, the Washington Examiner, Education Week, and Fox News, among other outlets. And I also happen to know when I follow her on social media, she’s also a mommy. So welcome to the show, Denisha.

[00:14:37] Denisha Allen: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be on. And yes, that’s a new passion for education because now I have a little. It makes a world of a difference. I’m so happy to be on. Thanks.

[00:14:49] Alisha Searcy: It does. And congratulations on the marriage and the family and all that good stuff. Excited to talk to you today and hear about your work. And so I’m going to jump right in. You’ve become a leading national spokesperson, as we just mentioned in your bio, for school choice and various kinds and of a powerful personal narrative of success. And so would you talk to us about your story and tell our listeners who you are?

[00:15:16] Denisha Allen: Yes. School choices issue education freedom, parental choice, education options, you know, however. Folks choose to frame it is really near and dear to me. One, because I, I am a beneficiary of school choice. It, insert a cliche, it changed my life. I went from making D’s and F’s to A’s and B’s on a scholarship in Florida, and really got thrust into this space after witnessing some politics in Florida.

[00:15:46] And really committed about to commit my life to making sure that every kid has an opportunity to receive a quality education of their parent’s choice. It just didn’t make any sense to me as to why we weren’t providing these options. And me, a lower income student from Jacksonville, Florida, had an opportunity, but some students in other states didn’t quite.

[00:16:11] And so it’s awesome that now. We have the opportunity and many students were just expanding school choice across the country like wildfire. And yeah, it’s just so encouraging to see and to meet people who’ve also benefited who fight for this. It makes me it really just makes me so happy and proud.

[00:16:34] Alisha Searcy: Absolutely. Thank you for that. So in 2020, you founded Black Minds Matter. A national movement to celebrate Black minds, support excellence, and promote the development of high quality school options for Black students. Can you discuss how you developed this effort? And talk about some of the people, perhaps, who have inspired your work, as well as some of your long term goals of the organization.

[00:16:59] Denisha Allen: In 2020, as the world was in civil uproar, if I can say that, with the murder of George Floyd, and everyone was really trying to understand how do we create a more equal and just society for African Americans in this country. so much for having me. And not just, you know, in policing and criminal justice, but on all fronts.

[00:17:26] And we started canceling stuff as a society, to just be frank, from Aunt Jemima pancake and syrup mix. And that was, that was interesting to see. But it was also frustrating because I noticed that we were not cancelling the dismal outcomes for African American students. Only 15 percent of Black kids in this country are reading on grade level.

[00:17:52] That’s it, 15 percent are reading on grade level. And it’s like, we could have, gotten ourselves together as a collective and demanded for change in this. Like we demanded for ice cream to be taken down. Like how we demanded for syrup and pancake mix to be taken down. But we didn’t. And so that’s one of the reasons why I launched Black Minds Matter.

[00:18:20] And in this work, you Coupled with the frustration is actually the joy and the outcome of present day school founders. There are Black school founders all across the country who founded education environments for Black students, and their stories have not been heard. Their narratives were not being shared.

[00:18:40] And so, we, on our website, BlackMindsMatter. net, We actually house the first and the only directory of Black founded schools. There are about 500 that we found so far across the country and we share their stories. We highlight them and we make sure that, yeah, that their stories are out there. And it really is so cool to see that they have a passion for school choice and they are actually the putting it into action, if I can put it that way.

[00:19:12] Alisha Searcy: I’d say it’s a little small. Yeah, it makes total sense. And it’s great that you’re highlighting that level of work because we don’t see that a lot in the mainstream media. So we appreciate you for doing that work. I want to talk about urban school reform. It’s been a central focus of K 12 education policy for at least 50 years.

[00:19:32] But across the nation, it’s only experienced, let’s call it uneven success. With stubbornly persistent race and class based achievement gaps, some would call them even opportunity gaps. Would you discuss some of the politics that you see in big city urban school reform? And some would say the teachers unions and their politics. Talk about their power and where you see, where you see students chronic underperformance is the worst.

[00:20:01] Denisha Allen: You know, it is. No, yeah, but it’s a great, it’s a great question because when you boil it down, it really is politics around education that’s preventing students from receiving. a quality education of their parents choice.

[00:20:19] It’s all politics. You know, we’ve done national polls, we’ve done, you know, surveys, we’ve done interviews with parents, met with parents, and they all want school choice. They all want their kids to be in a better learning environment. They all will want to customize their child’s education that’s tailor fit for what their kid needs, and that’s regardless of income.

[00:20:44] But when politics gets in the mix, it really just boils down to money and power. You have the Teachers Union, who is little by little, praise the Lord, having a reduction in the political stronghold that they have over traditional public schools, over student outcomes, because there have been so many positive laws that have been passed.

[00:21:11] But yes, they are the major funder. of the Democratic Party, they pressure candidates and lawmakers to vote a certain way because they’re funding them. And it really is just about power and money. If you, you know, take up in Chicago, I think that was probably the funniest. story. You talk about where, you know, the head of the Chicago’s teachers union, who is an African American woman.

[00:21:43] She obviously is the head of the teachers union. So she does not support school choice. She doesn’t support alternative options to traditional public education. And she was questioned on an interview on CNN with Laura Coates. And Laura Coates is like, but you send your son to a private school. And she’s like, yeah.

[00:22:03] Because the school that he would have gone to is not, you don’t know how they treat little black boys. And so she’s like, but shouldn’t other black boys have that same opportunity? Like, wait a minute. It was the, it was, it was, we couldn’t, I mean, we could have paid for that promo. It was, it was so bad. But it just goes to show that there is a lot of hypocrisy for those that can.

[00:22:31] for their families, but they don’t want other families to do it. And it’s all because it affects the bottom line and more and more people are standing up more and more people are demanding for change. And we actually see that the voices of parents have taken the forefront, especially after COVID, you know, these, These big organizations, these big institutions, are not controlling students as much as they used to, which is a positive, which is a positive outcome.

[00:23:08] They’re still big. I mean, if we can go into New York, if we can go into Chicago, if we can go into New Jersey and California and break down the unions there, I mean. My goodness. Even, you know, Texas, we talk about union states, but there’s also some states that just, unions are not the issue. They would have other complicated but political issues.

[00:23:30] So, in Georgia, you know, you, yeah, yeah. But politics, politics, money and power is, uh huh.

[00:23:37] Alisha Searcy: Don’t always have kids at the forefront, right?

[00:23:39] Denisha Allen: That’s exactly right.

[00:23:41] Alisha Searcy: Yeah. I want to move to talking about public charter schools for a moment. They unfortunately are still controversial in some ways. But in recent years, the politics of public charter schools have become a little bit more complicated and contentious, some would argue, as the political landscape in D. C. and across the country has become completely fragmented. Can you discuss where the right left charter school coalition stands? Help us, okay, and what needs to be done to bridge these political divisions around public charter schools?

[00:24:18] Denisha Allen: You know, it’s, it is funny that there are so many still politics around charter schools when charter schools are public schools. They just like magnet schools were created to help innovate traditional public schools to create, you know, innovative models within the traditional public school space. So that traditional district zip code based schools better the services that they’re providing for students. But instead, there’s this fight of, oh, you know, and bickering, even that’s even leaked among educators and the community, where charter schools are not viable options.

[00:25:05] They’re making our communities worse. They’re making schooling worse. And It’s really a shame, and so where I think the narrative or the push should be going in the future is really encouraging parents who have their kids in charter schools to raise their voice, but then just to, you know, I don’t know, maybe I’m being a little mean, but it’s just like, Be quiet.

[00:25:31] Like, just shut up. Like, we need more options. Like, there are some really good charter schools out there. I am not an advocate for bad schools. So where the debate is like, oh, if it’s a bad school, it should be shut down. Equally as much, there are some bad traditional public schools and they need to be shut down.

[00:25:49] And it is not the fault of a private or charter school or micro school that a traditional public school has shut down. They probably were crap and they should have shut down, but we should just focus on student outcomes. And if we did that, instead of the type of learning that students are taking advantage of, I think we would see an uptick in in outcomes, in uptick in reading and math, in science and civic outcomes. And that’s really what we should be focusing on. That’s the purpose of our education system, you know, right? You know, and so we, that’s, I think that’s what we should focus on.

[00:26:26] Alisha Searcy: So I want to turn over to Walt. He’s got some questions for you as well.

[00:26:29] Walter Blanks: So Denisha, it’s so good to talk to you. How are you?

[00:26:32] Denisha Allen: I’m doing good. How are you?

[00:26:35] Walter Blanks: Good, good. So I want to backtrack a little bit. We’ve been talking a Kind of just the current educational landscape, and while we’re still removed, we’re removed quite a bit, I would say a little bit from, you know, the pandemic and, and all of that, we’re still, still talking about the impact that it’s had on, on children across the country, and so clearly there was a sense of There was just this massive shift in education during, during the pandemics where parents and families, you know, started having a little, taking a closer look into how their students were learning, what was going on in the schools, which really just exploded this and this want for other options.

[00:27:17] And some families were perfectly happy where they were and they, and they stayed, but other families looked to charter schools and vocational schools and technical schools and homeschooling, micropods, like, you, you know, all of this, could you just like discuss with us your experience with the pandemic and schooling and education and how that really fueled, uh, the work that you did during that time?

[00:27:40] Denisha Allen: Yeah, like you said, it was so invigorating to see so many entrepreneurs, education entrepreneurs, just rise up and create learning environments for students. Like, I don’t think anybody ever anticipated how, that we would get a new, innovative school. Schooling model like micro schools is literally this just like pandemic, we call them pandemic pods.

[00:28:06] I think we’ve all just settled on the term micro school. They were called so many different things and it was so cool to see teachers left the classroom, became education entrepreneurs to found learning environments for students and in the African American community, black parents were the fastest growing demographic.

[00:28:30] And homeschooling. And it was just like this crazy, from the ground up swelling, uh, creation of learning environments and new demand for school choice programs. You know, this would nobody, nobody in the advocacy space, no one at our respective organizations were like, oh, we should create a new learning environment.

[00:28:58] And then. You know, have them lead the pack. No, nobody was, you know, they were just like, we need to pass good policies. They did like the people did it themselves. And it was so beautiful to watch. So interesting to watch. And since now we have so many support organizations who are corralling these people.

[00:29:22] Together, to help them, to service them, to better serve their students, to share their stories. These schools range from One of the cool schools that I love to see and hear all over social media, the Surf Skate School down in South Florida, where kids literally learn at the beach and at the skate park.

[00:29:44] And it’s so cool. You got the hippie dippie schools. They’re like in tree houses and, you know, outside in nature 24 7. You have little micro schools that are pretty cool. Popped up inside of storefronts and in people’s houses. I went to tour some micro schools up in Arizona, literally walked into the house and there were so many animals.

[00:30:08] I’m like, OK, so this is the animal micro school. Then it’s customized based on what these kids want, what these kids need and what’s going to help them better their academic outcomes. It’s given me, you know, you ask, what’s it, it’s given me like this new found love for education. And now that, I know you’ve seen, and Walter has a baby too, but you know, since having a little kid, it’s like, oh my goodness, the possibilities are endless on how you can customize and make learning fun.

[00:30:42] You know, you can literally just take your kid out of the country every month, if you want, that’s their learning environment. And. It’s amazing to just now think about, we don’t have to stick a kid even in a school. It’s not even about a brick and mortar school anymore. It’s now about learning and making learning customizable, however that family sees fit.

[00:31:08] That’s this new wave that we’re riding and it’s only going to continue to change and innovate. And it just makes the future for education that much more. exciting and in that much more need and demand for policymakers and lawmakers to get out of the way of their opinions on how education should look and really trust parents and trust this wave of innovation that’s happening.

[00:31:38] Walter Blanks: Yeah, I think that’s really, really important because we’re having this conversation about all of these, these options and this innovation. But before we even really talk about that, I think we have to understand where we’re coming from. How did we get here? I mean, you know this, that the United States Department of Education was established in 1979.

[00:32:00] You spent a little bit of time there in your career. And while Only limited to 10 percent of K 12 total funding, under several recent administrations, it took on a larger role in pushing the Beltway’s priorities in the states and school districts through various things, including, you know, No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, ESSER funds, I mean, the list goes on.

[00:32:23] The list goes on and on. From your experience and just the things that you’re seeing in the landscape, can you talk about why, in spite of the department spending large expenditures, particularly during COVID, that the NAEP reading and math scores, according to, you know, also known as the Nation’s Report Card, why have the results been stagnating or declining for more than a decade now, from your perspective?

[00:32:51] Denisha Allen: Because money is not the problem, you know, we, we have this, this bandage solution in the traditional public school space where we think that every person who gets an office, the solution is, oh, public schools need more money. We need to fund our schools. There’s not enough money, money, money, money, money.

[00:33:12] When, really, money is not the problem. We, I, you know, and the federal government, like you said, continues to just empty money into This, you know, sinking ship, instead of rebuilding the ship and setting it, you know, loose on the ocean. And so that’s why I really think we have this stagnation and decline in academic outcomes because we, we have not Truly rebuilt the system and encouraged for innovation in the current system.

[00:33:52] Instead, we’ve just dumped more money into a failing system, you know, with the initiatives, like you mentioned, from, you know, the federal government, Race to the Top, No Child Left Behind. All of these initiatives were a carrot and stick approach. You know, we’re going to punish you if you don’t do well.

[00:34:09] Here, okay, here’s your incentive. to do well, and they haven’t worked. We haven’t encouraged for, hey, let’s just, let’s just give some money. They’re now groups who are, I love them. They’re doing, they’re giving unrestricted permissionless dollars to educators, to people who have ideas around education to better academic outcomes.

[00:34:31] That’s the way to go. I also think that a lot of school districts across the country, post COVID, they had Millions, billions of dollars, where are, the dollars are still, some are unaccounted for, they’ve misused the funds, I’m actually, I’m recording this podcast live from Philadelphia, I went to the most Awesome charter school.

[00:34:57] When I tell you, they, they use their COVID relief dollars to create a cafe in their school, one where the students, it’s a cafe slash bakery, the students are able, it’s a high school, the students are able to work the cafe and sell their goods to the public. And it’s, you know, workforce training program.

[00:35:21] It’s their, you know, immersion type program in there. It’s also the school’s way of multiplying the dollars that they got. I’m like, that’s genius. You know, you, I walked into the facility, top of the line grade, you know, equipment. The students are not in a, Slum environment, trying to bake some muffins and do espresso coffee.

[00:35:44] No, it is a legit coffee shop that’s run by a school and run by students. And they got approved to use their COVID dollars in order to create that. I was like, This is what, this is what schools should, the district should have did with their dollars. You know, what did they do with this money, you know? And, and parents were still obligated, they didn’t even use the PPE funds to buy all the, the sanitizer and Kleenex and items because parents still got a school supply list that was a mile long to bring all of the sanitizers and Kleenex and all of these type markers and pencils to school. Like, what in the world? But the fix that we always give is we need more money. Money is not There are private schools and charter schools who are educating students better at a fraction of the cost. Studies have shown this.

[00:36:46] For black boys who go to charter schools, they’re more likely to graduate from high school and go to college than boys who go to traditional public schools. There’s a study in Florida. Students who went to private schools were more likely to graduate from high school, get accepted into college, and graduate from college than their traditional public schools counterparts.

[00:37:08] And the funding for these private and charter schools are not equal. They’re not receiving the same per pupil funding as traditional public schools. And so it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, Money, money, money is not the, not, not the problem.

[00:37:24] Walter Blanks: Yeah, we saw some reports where there were schools that were hiring more staff, although enrollment numbers were going down. Some of them were more on the luxurious side with like, you know, football fields and jumbotrons and all of those things, but to really be able to hone in and be innovative, be very entrepreneurial with those dollars was really, really exciting for me to see. Across the country. And so now I want to talk to you about some current things.

[00:37:53] Where we are now, what’s the future look like? Of course, you know that 2021 was called the year of school choice, where we saw a massive and numerous school choice expansion with whether it was vouchers, tax credits, ESAs, you know, you, you know, the whole of options out there that was just flying through legislatures across the country. As a school choice advocate, will you share with our listeners, your, your insight about these developments and their long term implications for K through 12 education reform across the country?

[00:38:29] Denisha Allen: Yeah, I think it should inform it just to be short and sweet, because if we continue to just replicate. Not COVID, I shouldn’t say replicate COVID, but replicate an environment where parents feel and educators feel empowered to customize and direct learning.

[00:38:51] That’s really the sweetness that came, the silver lining that came out of COVID, I believe. And so the more we can do that, the more I think we would find even more ways. to, you know, right now, the, we’re calling ESAs, Education Same As Accounts, Universal Education Same As Accounts, the Golden Ticket, you know, this is the peak, basically, of the, right now, of this time, but maybe not.

[00:39:20] Maybe there’s a higher heights that we can go to. You know, we started, yeah, with school vouchers. That was the highest. Tax credits and ESAs are now the gold star program where parents can take dollars and customize their child’s education, pay for all different types of learning materials, not just private school tuition.

[00:39:42] But maybe there’s going to be something else. I would love to see compulsory education just blow up, you know, like, It’s time. So, but I think that’s where it comes where we trust the wave, we trust parents, and even in the positions that we have, you know, as commentators, as policy drafters, you know, lawmakers, politicians, we really have to make sure that we’re listening to parents and educators on what they want, what they see is best, too.

[00:40:17] What we also I think it’s best, but what happened during COVID was outside of our realm of control. We were commenting on it after we saw this great thing happening. And so I think that’s what we should be moving toward in the future.

[00:40:33] Walter Blanks: Yeah. So, so we talk about a lot of that, a lot of the, the great things that have happened, the things that we can see coming down the line, but none of that happens without strategy, without work, without coalitions coming together, without me and Alisha co hosting more episodes in the future.

[00:40:51] Alisha Searcy: Right.

[00:40:55] Walter Blanks: So, so, so thinking about that and thinking about your own experience, you’ve been in the educational reform space for a very long time. We often refer to you as the OG school choice advocate. Oh my gosh. Student beneficiary turned advocate. And you’ve also have had really cool experiences, high level positions in government, non profit, advocacy work, Black Minds Matter, you know, all of these things. What are things that you would like to see governors, state legislatures, local officials, you know, across the board, parents, families, what would you like to see them do? to dramatically improve academic outcome for all children in in the country?

[00:41:35] Denisha Allen: Yeah, well, I say like I just said, I would say move out of the way, but for people who are currently in office, I would say listen to their constituents and act on what their constituents want.

[00:41:48] In some instances, that takes courage. In other instances, It just takes, it’s a little bit easier because, you know, the line of where you’re going, you might be a Republican, and so it’s a little bit easier to listen to your constituents. On the other hand, if you’re running and you’re in office as a Democrat, it might take a little bit more courage.

[00:42:08] So I would say just listen, because on each side, parents want this. The next, for folks who are, you know, You know, for parents and even educators, that would, you know, they should be running for office. Now, with my work with Black Minds Matter, there are black school founders who are running for office. And that’s why I’m like, yes, we need this.

[00:42:32] Predominantly, they’re Democrats, and they have founded schools. They support education freedom. They want more. Students to receive a high quality education, and so they are supporting, they’re running, yeah, they’re running for, they want to run for office, that is, that’s cool, I think we need more of that, and Alisha, she’s, yeah, she’s co hosting the episode, she, you, she was in office, and did a fantastic job, despite, you know, being, yeah, like, when I tell Georgia it’s such a weird place, When it comes to like constituency and then predominant, uh, major voice in the state house.

[00:43:12] But like standing up for parents is something that she’s done, that politicians have done. And so I use courage, but like when you, when you are in office, you are there to serve the public and not yourself. And that’s what a lot of politicians should be doing. And so When that happens, when we support good policies, and everything is just going to tick up.

[00:43:40] And I don’t want to make it sound like I’m being so overly positive, or that’s just going to be the tradition, the outcome. But that’s what the outcome has been. Like, I don’t think I’m being overly positive. I think it’s really positive to just say, oh, if one, if you support school choice policies, you’re going to have an uptick in academic outcomes.

[00:43:59] We’ve already seen this happen. So let’s just replicate it and keep doing it more and more and more. And it’s not an elimination of traditional public schools. No, not at all. Like, saying we want more options is not an elimination of the option that we have. It is saying that the singular option that most parents have is unethical, and we should allow for them to have more options.

[00:44:26] And so I think that’s what we should be thinking about. You know, it’s a famous, we should fund students instead of systems. And systems is anything from one type of school building, one type of learning model, one type of service provider. We need to make sure we’re funding students.

[00:44:46] Alisha Searcy: Amen. Well said. Tanisha, thank you so much for being with us. This has been a great interview. Great to learn about your work. And really the call to action for all of us to do what we need to do to make sure kids have access to all kinds of options and to make sure that, as you said, I think the last sentence in your statement, we need to fund kids, right? Not schools, not adults, but fund kids and do what’s in their best interest. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your hard work and all that you do on behalf of kids. And thank you for being with us today.

[00:45:19] Denisha Allen: Thank you. And both of you guys too. I know all three of us on the call go way back and we all have a tradition of supporting students. And so I think that it’s, it’s yeah. I like the, I like this flow. This was nice. Hopefully you guys, yeah. I’ll co hosting again. Yeah.

[00:45:39] Alisha Searcy: I think we’re going to make that happen. And we’d like to have you again soon too.

[00:45:54] Well, just as expected, that was a great interview. Wouldn’t you say?

[00:45:59] Walter Blanks: Absolutely. Dinesha is an absolute powerhouse in this space, and I’m really honored to be standing Shorter to shorter with her, talking about these really important issues that our country is facing.

[00:46:10] Alisha Searcy: Yes, both of you make me very excited. I’m going to sound like an old lady on here, but I feel like you guys are part of the next generation of ed reform leaders. And so I’m excited about your energy, your approach to things, and I just feel good about the future of education in our country. So it was great to have her and great to have you join me today.

[00:46:32] Walter Blanks: Yeah. Thank you so much. I often, you know, use the track analogy of passing the baton and it’s going to take all of us. It’s going to take the pioneers who have started this work. It’s going to take generations after Denisha and I to continue it. And so we’re just playing our part, really honored to be a part of this movement.

[00:46:49] Alisha Searcy: Absolutely. Well, before we go, we’ve got to do the Tweet of the Week, and I love this one. A little known secret about me to our listeners, my bachelor’s degree is in both sociology and theater. People don’t know that I have a background in the arts. And so the Tweet of the Week comes from Americans for the Arts.

[00:47:09] Happy National Arts in Education Week. From September 9th through the 13th, we’re celebrating the power of the arts education To inspire creativity and boost mental health. Join us in advocating for equitable access to the arts for students everywhere. So love that tweet, love the arts. I know for sure that I am who I am partially because of my exposure to the arts.

[00:47:34] Whether it’s, you know, Theater or dancing or singing, visual arts, it’s so important in our schools and we have to make sure that we protect those in terms of budget, in terms of coursework and access so that all kids have access to the arts. So happy National Arts and Education Week. So again, while it was absolutely wonderful to have you with me, thank you for joining. We appreciate you.

[00:47:57] Walter Blanks: I was so excited to be here. It was a great conversation and we’re definitely going to have to do this again very, very soon.

[00:48:04] Alisha Searcy: Absolutely. I will make sure that happens. Make sure you join us next week where we will have Lance Azumi joining us. We’ll see you next week.