Trevor Mattos Shows How Massachusetts Runs on Immigrants

Denzil Mohammed:

I’m Denzil Mohammed, and this is JobMakers.

Denzil Mohammed:

Did you know that without immigration, Massachusetts would have lost congressional seats? Immigrants made up 90% of the region’s population rebalanced since 1990. Indeed. Massachusetts has always run on immigrants in 1910 36% of Boston’s population was born outside the country in the Commonwealth today, there are more than 1 million immigrants making up about one in six residents. And while the immigrants of today may come from different parts of the world. And before the reasons are the same as they were back in 1910, freedom opportunity, a better life for travel matters research manager at Boston indicators, the research center at the Boston foundation, educating those in city government and on beacon hill on the important contributions of immigrants is paramount, particularly in a time of divisive as information about immigrants and the precariousness of the pandemic. Trevor’s research reveals that disproportionately large impact immigrant workers, entrepreneurs, and innovators are having on the local economy from Kendall square and Cambridge to the Latin port in Jamaica plate. His research goes further, however, to show how our increasing diversity and which is the lives of all Americans, new or old, and gives us a competitive edge. As you learn in this week’s job,

Denzil Mohammed:

Trevor Mattos of the Boston indicators project, thank you for joining us and JobMakers.

Trevor Mattos:

Thanks for having me.

Denzil Mohammed:

So tell us what about your organization and mission? What do you do and why do you do it?

Trevor Mattos:

So I am the research manager of Boston indicators, which is the research center based at the Boston foundation, uh, which of course is sort of the long standing community foundation of our region of greater Boston. Um, and what we do, uh, what I do is analyze key indicators of social economic wellbeing. Um, we research ideas for making our city, um, and I’m, I’m curving a little bit from our, from our mission statement here, uh, to make our city more prosperous, more equitable, more just, um, and, and we do a lot of this in partnership with other researchers, civic leaders, uh, community groups, uh, and, and sort of the output of all of that is oftentimes, uh, reports, research, briefs, uh, public forums, you know, in the context of the pandemic that’s virtual, but normally we’d get a whole bunch of people together at the Boston foundation offices downtown and, you know, present some findings, have a discussion.

Trevor Mattos:

At least from my personal perspective, I’ve always been interested in using rigorous analysis research to better understand our economic challenges, um, and the opportunities that you know are facing our population. Um, and ultimately, you know, full disclosure, like what I’m interested in is creating positive change, reducing poverty, uh, increasing access to opportunity, um, more broadly. And then there’s a little bit of the personal side too, where, um, at least for the context of today’s discussion, um, I’m a second generation immigrant, uh, with family roots back in Peru and south America. Um, and just, I’m pretty deeply inspired, um, by the courage and, you know, the journeys that immigrants like my mother took to the United States, um, and, and many others do every year, um, in pursuit of, of greater opportunity. So, um, that’s sort of what brings me to the work a little bit of my, uh, vantage point, if you will,

Denzil Mohammed:

You brought up making Boston more prosperous, equitable, and just, if you had to rank those as to what really guides your research, what would you say is number one,

Trevor Mattos:

I would say that the question of equity and I’m using that in a, in a really broad way. Certainly racial equity is very important part of the work that we do. Very important part of the work we do, but, you know, economic inequality, um, in its own, right, I think is a big, um, issue in Boston, in our region and our state. Um, and we are a very wealthy state. So I think, um, I’m interested in more equity more and, and, you know, so it gets back to the shared prosperity as well. I don’t know, how’s that for a ranking?

Denzil Mohammed:

Sure. I mean more equitable prosperity. I think it’s all

Trevor Mattos:

Very intertwined. Exactly.

Denzil Mohammed:

So you’ve been able to see the integration in Boston, um, but I’m sure you also have a sort of historical perspective on Boston and the greater Boston region immigrants who are Boston’s immigrants and how has it changed over the years?

Trevor Mattos:

So, um, we have all kinds of different immigrants coming from all parts of the world. Um, really, really diverse group of people with, with many different skills and talents and experiences. I can say that looking back several decades, if we were to say back in 1990, you’d see top immigrant subgroups in greater Boston, Canada, Italy, and Portugal, more of that former wave of immigration. Whereas more, if you look around what we’re seeing is, um, uh, large and growing, uh, immigrant populations from China, uh, from the Dominican Republic from Brazil. Um, so you can see they’re both different regions, but also sort of spread far and wide, uh, as well. Um, more recently.

Denzil Mohammed:

And one thing that’s unique about Massachusetts is that we don’t have one particular sending country that sort of outnumbers all the others, like the top three or the top five, almost neck and neck, China, Dominican Republic, Brazil, you have hazy. So that’s something different as opposed to places like Texas or Florida, where you have Mexicans, Cubans, um, research. What has been the impact of immigration on greater Boston or Massachusetts? Um, has it been positive or negative and in what areas have you seen this, this negative or positive impact?

Trevor Mattos:

Great question. Um, I would certainly characterize it as, as positive. That’s my perspective. I think there’s good evidence to support it. So, you know, um, again, if you sort of take a look back at, I don’t think Boston greater Boston has always attracted sort of the highly educated immigrant workforce that it does today, but it certainly does today. Um, and I think this is part of the broader longer-term changes that we’ve seen in the local economy. You know, the economy of today is vastly different than it was even 15, 20 years ago. Um, let alone, if you, if you look further back than that, um, but I would say, you know, in terms of, uh, of, uh, of an impact, one thing that was definitely true, then it is now as well, is that the vast majority of immigrants, they come to Boston to work hard.

Trevor Mattos:

Um, they make vital contributions. I would argue to our communities, um, they have very high rates of labor force participation. Um, many of them are very highly educated, um, sort of there’s sort of two different slices, I guess, of our, of our broader immigrant population in the region. And, you know, not all are highly educated, but many of them are. And in fact, um, they are overall, I would say more highly educated than the U S population is, um, broadly speaking. So including both native and foreign born, the total us population has a lower rate of, of higher education than you’d see among immigrants in greater Boston. Um, so I think that just brings a lot, a lot of value. Um, and even immigrants that come with less education are also working in really important industries, you know, and occupations, they’re working in an agriculture and, and, um, manufacturing, construction, food, hospitality, these are, you know, core sectors of our economy.

Trevor Mattos:

Um, and when you think about it just scale, if you think about the state overall, state’s got 7 million people in it. I think we’re talking 1.2 million immigrants in the mix, one in six, um, residents of Massachusetts as an immigrant. So you can think about just how critical that is to, to making our economy function. Um, and, you know, just in terms of other characteristics, other sort of economic impact that immigrants have, there are, um, sort of these trends that you see where when, when there’s a scarcity of labor, uh, immigrants, uh, you know, research shows that immigrants are more, um, sort of agile in, in, in going to fill open jobs, um, in, in different regions, different parts of the state, different parts of the country. Um, so we’d benefit from that. Um, and then another big thing, and this is, this is true in Massachusetts, sort of as much as it is anywhere else in the country, and this has to do with our aging population. And so I think immigrants are sort of mitigating the impact of the older, whiter population aging out of the workforce, um, which, which of course also brings with it a whole bunch of value.

Denzil Mohammed:

I find it fascinating that you talked about low skilled immigrants in our regions past. And we think about people who came to new Bedford as fishermen from Portugal. And we also have lower skilled immigrants today who are cleaning buildings. And we see that, especially during the COVID pandemic, um, they make up such great proportions, you know, almost half of our agricultural workforce. Uh, but there are also three tenths physicians and huge numbers of our home health aids. People seem to forget that, you know, most of them have always been attracted to the us as well as high-skilled immigrants, but it’s those people who had their backs against the wall who didn’t have opportunity who didn’t choice back then, whether it was the Irish potato famine, whether it was war on genocide, whether it was a Holocaust, whether it was a natural disaster that forced them to flee.

Denzil Mohammed:

Um, and another thing you brought up was, uh, the nimbleness of an arrest when it comes to work, a lot of people seem to have the perception that, if you make some sanctuary city immigrants who are going to flop there and there’s going to be always negative consequences, or if you have instituted, um, driver’s license for undocumented immigrants, that’s what moves them. No, they go where the jobs are. They go to the poetry factories, they go to the meat packing plants in Nebraska, non-traditional gateway cities. And we’ve always seen that throughout our history. Right.

Trevor Mattos:

Absolutely. And, you know, I would add to that, that there’s, I think another, um, misconception or certainly a debate that’s raged on for quite some time, even amongst the economists, uh, that are out there that has to do with the idea of immigrants going to take the jobs of others, of other deserving, you know, native born workers. And although some of the econometric, you know, the technical parts of that debate, seemed to rage on pretty endlessly. I would say that there is a consensus that when immigrants go and they work and they start businesses that they’re, you know, just growing the economy, there’s a multiplier effects here, you know what I mean? And so when you really look at things in the aggregate, um, I think not only is it the case that there’s a good deal of consensus, that immigrants aren’t coming to take our jobs, but it’s that, you know, more broadly, they’re adding so much more to the economy, every dollar sort of that they are spending, you know, every job that they’re creating in their businesses, it just sort of adds extra fuel to the economy. Um, which is, which is so important as well.

Denzil Mohammed:

And I want to remind our listeners that in 1910, the one population of Boston was 36%. It’s 28% today, but it’s not the highest it’s ever been. So it’s not something that’s as generic as it has been in Boston’s past. And as we bring up the past, um, population loss, we recently had census data released and certain states lost, um, congressional seats like California and others gained by Texas. Massachusetts is able to hold on to all of its congressional seats. Why did that happen? What was responsible for that?

Trevor Mattos:

I would certainly point to growth in the immigrant population. I know that the data we’ve crunched shows that since 1990, more than more than 90% of our, our net population growth has been due to new immigrants coming into our region. So, I mean, that just speaks volumes about, you know, could you imagine what would have happened in the absence of that population growth? So I think that’s, that’s just, it’s huge. And, and, you know, when you look at the specific groups you see, um, Latinos folks of Latin X origins are, you know, they have among one of the highest rates of growth of any racial group in greater Boston. Um, at one point back in 1990, we saw them at less than 5% of our region’s total population. They’re now pushing 13%. Um, Asian Americans were back, you know, in 1990, less than 3% of our region’s population. Now they’re pushing almost 10%. Um, so you see, you know, really, really fast growth that as you point out, um, has been vital for our civic life and, you know, our, um, our wellbeing in a much broader sense of state,

Denzil Mohammed:

According to researcher, David Kalik, um, no city, no Metro city has been able to rebound from the slump in the sixties and seventies without integration. Not that immigration caused their economic prosperity from the two thousands onward from 1990 onward, but mostly it has been able to do it without international migration. That’s a really, really important point. Tell me about what role immigrants play in our workforce and talk about your experience with immigrants as entrepreneurs.

Trevor Mattos:

Absolutely. And just to add a little color, maybe behind some of that as well, like I would suggest that, you know, immigrants, even beyond just the raw economic contributions, which I’ll get into in just a moment are bringing a level of diversity that I think, you know, there’s ethnic and racial diversity, but there’s also diversity of thought. And I would suggest that that is part of the creativity, uh, as well. There’s another linkage there where we see the, the innovative spirit, uh, that you’re getting at so huge swaths of our frontline workforce, uh, that have sustained us all during the pandemic are indeed entrepreneurs. Um, but beyond that, as, as you mentioned, there’s, there’s so much innovation, there’s so much of an, of an entrepreneurial spirit. Um, and we’ve done a little bit of research on this recently at Boston indicators. And at the very least, I know, um, to, to put one number in your mind that nationally speaking some of the most recent data suggest that immigrants have a rate of entrepreneurship that is double that of native born workers. And we see that play out all throughout our region. But I think as we are trying to transition out of this pandemic, as we’re trying to look towards a recovery, um, these are the job creators, you know, these are the creators of new ideas, um, really adding so much value.

Denzil Mohammed:

So you’re saying that immigrants are job makers

Trevor Mattos:

That’s exactly right. Yes.

Denzil Mohammed:

Deeper into immigrant entrepreneurship, as you said, immigrants are twice as likely to found a business compared to the U S born, even during the recession, the great recession, the rate of business generation among immigrants increased, whereas the decreased amount. And I think that points to the nimbleness that you spoke about earlier, they are able to adapt to these changing environments, just because of the fact that they’ve moved to another country, they’ve had to adapt to different laws, different cultures, different languages. Um, and I do also like the idea that you brought about when it comes to diversity, diversity is, is a contentious issue for some people as though the us is, and has always been some sort of homogenous nation, but what’s our favorite fast food taco bell. We are lucky to be able to have Thai food and Mexican food and Chinese food. Um, and that’s just one example of how immigration has enriched the U S Italian food, Irish, German food, um, apple pie, wasn’t it is not even an American thing was brought over here with foreign influences. So the idea of diversity somehow being negative, I think some people probably have fallen into an area where they just are accustomed to it, and they don’t realize the diversity that has made of U us what it is. Um, but again, going into entrepreneurship a little bit, can you highlight some areas of greater Boston or industries that have specifically benefited from immigrants, starting businesses

Trevor Mattos:

See the impact of that entrepreneurial spirit? And, um, I mean, even just taking a step back from entrepreneurship just of the high level of skill that so many immigrants bring. And so I think you’re right to think about Cambridge, to think about the 1 28 corridor, where you have tech, you have pharmaceuticals, um, and you have folks coming in with a lot of educational skills folks that are coming from other countries to gain those skills at our universities. Um, and then I think in the best case scenario, sticking around to, to start new companies, um, and to, and to sort of drive, um, the, the clusters of innovation that we see in places like, like Kendall square and Cambridge. But I think there’s one that hits perhaps a little closer to home for our, you know, day in, day out lives, you know, walking up and down the streets.

Trevor Mattos:

So it’s more look looking more closely at the main street businesses that we go into, uh, you know, on a, on a more regular basis, I think shape our day-to-day lives a bit more. And I can think of two examples in Boston. One of, one of them is, uh, is the neighborhood that I live, I live in, and this is in Jamaica, Plains, Latin quarter in Hyde square. Um, the other one is in Dorchester in field’s corner. And I think these are two super vibrant examples to places that have benefited tremendously from immigrant entrepreneurs. And I think, uh, you know, you name, um, I think probably one of our favorite examples, just being the cuisine, the variety of cuisine. Um, I think we are so blessed certainly in my neighborhood and in JP, um, you know, whether it’s Dominican Cuban, all kinds of different Latin American restaurants that have cropped up, um, and then looking over to the field’s corner to Savin hill and Dorchester seeing all the, all the Vietnamese offerings, but, uh, you know, we also happen to have two Ethiopian restaurants just around the corner, you know, and that’s, it’s a privilege to be able to, to enjoy some of those amenities.

Trevor Mattos:

I would say Ethiopian

Denzil Mohammed:

Food and the Latin quarter. Are you serious?

Trevor Mattos:

I am so serious about that. The blue Nile check it out. Oh, right.

Denzil Mohammed:

Oh, I forgot about that. So, given this net economic benefit that you’re talking about this complimentary workforce, there’s larger than, uh, population labor force participation, um, this great economic benefit that we’ve had. What is your view on what has been happening in the past few years with the federal administration’s dramatic crackdown on legal immigration to the U S

Trevor Mattos:

So perhaps unsurprisingly to your listeners, I’m quite critical of the way the, certainly the Trump administration sort of, I mean, attacked our immigration system at all levels, um, that isn’t to suggest that, you know, other democratic administrations haven’t, um, you know, been part of the problem. In some cases, I would certainly contend that as well. But I think the, the nature of the, of the actions that the Trump administration took were just, you know, kind of on another level. And, uh, you know, I think Trump and his allies, they really cut to the core of the legal structures that are in place to serve immigrants. And, you know, many of these immigrants who are fleeing instability, fleeing violence, um, and, and, you know, it’s worth saying perhaps as an aside, but many of the countries, not all, but some of them certainly in central America, um, that immigrants are fleeing.

Trevor Mattos:

You know, we have a large and growing Salvadorian population, um, in greater Boston, think of Chelsea, east Boston, et cetera. You know, that’s a country that the United States has, um, a long history of involvement with. And I think some of the instability we see today is not at all, uh, disconnected from the interventions of the past, the changes that the Trump administration made. Um, many of the times through just executive order through rule changes, they really completely subverted. What had been codified into law, you know, in the asylum is one example of this. They basically through due process out the window, uh, when it came to immigrants coming to the Southern border, it’s

Denzil Mohammed:

Funny that you mentioned U S involvement in other countries, instability, which leads to more immigrants, refugees and asylum is from these countries, one word Afghanistan, and our reaction be here, particularly in certain parts of the country about resettling Afghan families who are fleeing, what is certainly to be a very devastating, uh, Taliban administration, whether they’re talking about economics or social issues or cultural issues, immigration is tied into our communities, our industries, our labor force. So it’s not a separate issue. If you take immigrants out, whether it’s documented undocumented immigrants, everyone is going to feel the impact. Everyone will suffer. That’s a really important point. I’m glad that you made it. The lines are blurred. And it’s always been that way because America has always been a nation that has been founded on the idea of attracting people from other places whose commonality is not the ancestry or their religion, but their desire for freedom and opportunity. Would you agree?

Trevor Mattos:

I would absolutely very well said.

Denzil Mohammed:

Yeah. Thank you so much, Trevor Madras of Boston indicators for joining us in job makers, it was a real pleasure talking to you.

Denzil Mohammed:

Thank you so much for having me. Job makers is a weekly podcast about immigrant entrepreneurship and contributions produced by pioneer Institute. A think tank in Boston and the immigrant learning center of modern Massachusetts, a not-for-profit that gives immigrants a voice. Thank you for joining us for this. Week’s fascinating discussion on how immigrants have enriched Massachusetts. If you know someone, we should talk to email Denzel that’s, D E N Z I L at job makers, podcast.org. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming service too. I’m Denzel Mohamad. Join us next Thursday at noon for another JobMakers.