Dr. Helen Baxendale on Great Hearts Classical Liberal Arts Charter Schools

The Learning Curve Helen Baxendale

Albert: [00:00:00] Well, hello everybody and welcome to a brand new episode of the learning curve podcast. I’m one of your co hosts this week, Dr. Albert Cheng from the University of Arkansas. And with me is my co host, none other than Alisha Searcy. Alisha, what’s up?

Alisha: Albert, it is great to be back together. It is.

Albert: I know we, we’ve each had a bunch of stuff going on.

Albert: but yeah. Nice to get the band. I don’t know if we’d call it band. It’s just two of us, but, right.

Alisha: Something The duo, something the dynamic duo.

Albert: Yeah. There we go. . Well, hey, great to have you, Alicia. Great to be with you on the show again. You too, Albert. Well, I’m looking forward to this show.

Albert: Speaking of which we’re going to have Dr. Helen Baxendale from great hearts. love talking to her about classical liberal education and, what she’s doing at great hearts. So, That’s going to be coming up later in the show. But before we do that let’s talk some news. Alicia, you, you had an interesting article that I, you know, it also caught my eye just about education and I [00:01:00] guess how the democratic party is.

Albert: Handling it.

Alisha: yes, I’m really excited, really, about talking about this article. I wish we could have a whole episode on it because it’s something I’m deeply passionate about. I work for Democrats for Education Reform as a southern region president, and one of the reasons that I’m in this role is, I really think that Democrats have lost footing.

Alisha: on education. There was a time that we led voters trusted Democrats on education. I think we’ve lost that for a number of reasons. And I think this article really helps to point out historically what has happened. And so, as an example he says, like, when Bill Clinton was in office, he often talked about stopping Republicans from slashing government.

Alisha: And he wanted to make sure that we protected Medicare, Medicaid, and education and the environment. And so those are issues that particularly education, we’re not hearing Democrats talk about. When Barack Obama became president, I was in the [00:02:00] legislature and was very excited to work on race to the top and promise neighborhoods and all of the All of these very cool things.

Alisha: A lot of investments made in education to get us to move the needle for kids. But somehow, after that, and some would say it’s because partly President Barack Obama supported charter schools during that time. But it was such a huge political fight from, The teacher’s unions that he eventually sort of stopped defending that work and moved on to some other things.

Alisha: And so I would argue that that’s probably the time that things began to change. As much as I, as a Democrat, love the work that president Biden has done, education has not been his thing. And even. As much as I love Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris, even her platform in this article points out has very little to do with K 12 education.

Alisha: She talks about early education. She talks about, of course addressing student loan debt, but very, very little in K 12 education. [00:03:00] And so at the end of the day, what I appreciate about this article is kind of laying out, you know, where we’ve come. Where we’ve come from, I should say the things that have been left out in terms of this conversation, education.

Alisha: And so it is my hope that as we have this new election, right, we’ve got a new president elect as the time that we run this episode, that we can move into a season of focusing more on. public education and not just Democrats leading on it, but all parties at both parties. And all people elected officials in particular, because our kids are, are not getting what they need, We talk about this every week. And the way that I talk about it is we’re still delivering this. Telegram education to a tick tock generation. And I would argue again, as a Democrat, that we need to regain the footing. We need to focus on yes, early childhood education, but also the science of reading.

Alisha: And we’ve got to change the state funding formulas. we’ve got to restore accountability. Oh [00:04:00] my goodness. Things that we’ve seen in States where cut scores have been Lessened where the standard has been lessened. We don’t have high expectations like we should across the country so Obviously I could go on and on and on about this But i’m grateful for this article and for this platform frankly to talk about this and I think more conversations need to be had specifically among democrats To move back to where we once were in leading on education.

Albert: Yeah. Yeah well said Here, here. You know, I mean, this really segues nicely, I think, into the article, another article that caught my eye from The Economist and the article is talking about why Republicans just to, you know, talk a little bit about some of the, issues going on the other side of the aisle.

Albert: Why Republicans have repeatedly promised to abolish the Department of Education and then yet have never been able to do that. And think like, the article you described, it did talk a little bit about the history. I mean, for folks who don’t know, I mean, the, Department [00:05:00] of Ed is fairly recent in, in our history.

Albert: I mean, Jimmy Carter idea when he was president and then, his successor to the presidency, Ronald Reagan, kind of ran on wanting to abolish it. since Reagan a lot of Republicans have, ran campaign on abolishing the department of ed, but have failed to do so. And as this article outlines you know, they’re facing the real pragmatic question of into what agencies are you going to reorganize all the roles that the department of ed fills.

Albert: And. You know, I don’t want to get into all the politics of why this is a platform or whether we should or shouldn’t abolish it. But, I think to, dovetail from something you said, you know, there are a lot of other key issues. I think that there’s bipartisan support for you know, a focus on student learning, focus on literacy.

Albert: We’re seeing a lot of this, the action that you know, some of the things that you, you were just advocating for Alicia. Being pushed by Republican governors in, in a lot of states. And so, I think there’s a lot of room to work [00:06:00] together here. And I don’t know, here’s to hoping for perhaps a, a new and renewed bipartisan coalition to.

Albert: come together and push some of the things that I think there’s wide agreement and pretty good evidence for of these things would be good for kids. Right? So, yeah, let’s see. I don’t know where we’re going to enter a new political season here or kind of a new change that is happening with, with the new election cycle.

Albert: Yeah. Cool. Maybe there’ll be some new opportunities here, and I hope we can get there.

Alisha: I hope so, and I’ll just add one thing. I’ll tell you my greatest concern when I hear this idea of getting rid of the Department of Education, I think about the federal protections that are in place for things like special education, Right for just civil rights within the education system.

Alisha: And so if you don’t have a federal Department of Education, who’s going to look out for kids that have special needs and have other needs and funding. You know, title one I’m thinking about. So kids who are at the federal level. poverty level. [00:07:00] How are we going to make sure that those kids get the resources that they need to get the education that they deserve?

Alisha: And so I think we have to think long and hard when we make statements like get rid of an entire federal department. What does that mean? Particularly for kids when you’re talking about education. So I’m glad you brought that up as well. And I agree with you. I hope that Cooler heads prevail. And I think education is one of those issues that really can and should be bipartisan.

Alisha: And most of us are right there in the middle and we can find ways to make the department be effective. And serve kids at the end of the day.

Albert: Yeah,

Alisha: that’s right.

Albert: Well, you know, we’re going to keep talking about education. Stick with us after the break. We’re going to have uh, Dr. Helen Baxendale from great hearts.

Albert: And you know, there’s a charter network doing some, some excellent things and really expanding educational opportunity for lots of folks, lots of families in a couple of States throughout the U S so stick around for that [00:08:00] conversation.

Albert: Dr. Helen Baxendale is the chief of staff and vice president of strategy at great hearts academies, a rapidly expanding network of classical liberal arts charter schools, educating nearly 30, 000 students to the highest standards across Arizona, Louisiana, and Texas. Before leaving Australia to pursue graduate studies in the UK, Helen worked for several years as an advisor to the Honourable Christopher Pyne and the Honourable Tony Abbott, and served two years as a high school history and English teacher under the auspices of the Teach for Australia [00:09:00] program.

Albert: She has also worked as a consulting policy analyst, to public sector agencies, NGOs, philanthropic foundations, and multinational companies in Australia, the UK, and the United States. Helen has a doctorate and master’s degree in public policy from the University of Oxford, which she attended as a Rhodes Scholar, and a first class honors degree in political science and history from the Australian National University.

Albert: Helen, it’s great to have you on the show. Glad you’re here. Welcome.

Helen: Thank you very much, Albert. It’s great to be with you.

Albert: Well, so, let’s get into a little bit about your background. I mean, I just read your bio, but we’d like to hear a bit more. You’ve been around. You’re from Australia, studied at Oxford. given that international background, could you share with us some of your favorite and formative educational experiences and how that background informs your views on the mission of schooling and K 12 policymaking?

Helen: Well, thanks, Albert. And probably the place to start, I guess, is where I grew [00:10:00] up. I grew up in a rural part of Australia, which for your listeners, , they may not know is somewhat unusual. I think a lot of Americans think of Australia as sort of, you know, the outback, but actually most, most of the population lives in very urbanized areas around the coasts.

Helen: And that was not the case for me. And I guess that the relevance of that for talking today is that it means that, you know, educational opportunities are perhaps more limited in those parts of the country than elsewhere. And that was certainly my experience. and when it came to, you know, finding a high school, my parents were you know, a little bit underwhelmed by the limited options available.

Helen: And I was fortunate enough to win a scholarship to go to a an elite private boarding school, which meant that I had an early experience of sort of school choice and educational opportunity very directly had a profound influence on my life trajectory. And I’ve always been very grateful for that, but also very cognizant that that is not the case for a lot of people.

Helen: And [00:11:00] so I think from, quite an early age, I’d always had a curiosity about educational opportunity and educational systems and a certain frustration with I guess geographic or economic barriers that a lot of families face in accessing a high quality education. So, with the benefits of, the fine education I was lucky enough to receive, I, you know, went off to college or university as we call it in Australia and studied history and politics initially, but, continued to have an interest in education policy and politics and spent quite a bit of my undergraduate years actually working in the Australian Parliament for various members, but always on kind of questions of social and education policy and thereafter became a member of the then quite Fledgling teacher Australia program, which is the analog of the much bigger and older program here in the United States, which gave me a lot of interesting frontline insight into these policy questions that were being debated in the [00:12:00] parliament, in which I’d already had some acquaintance with.

Helen: And so I guess through my twenties, I kind of bounced around various roles in classrooms, in policy and politics, and then ultimately in academic research. And so my current role at Great Huts is really a nice kind of confluence of various strands of interest in professional experience. And I use a lot of the analytical skills I acquired during my doctoral studies every day, looking at our academic performance data and things like that.

Helen: My. Yeah, policy and political experience is very helpful in helping us navigate state and federal regulations. And my classroom experience means I have some comprehension of what our amazing faculty and school leaders are contending with every day and how I might be able to make their work a little bit easier.

Albert: Yeah, great. so let’s talk great hearts. I think many listeners are familiar, but, in case they’re not let’s get into this. So classical liberal arts charter schools in various parts of the U. S. So tell us about these schools, academic and curricular [00:13:00] approach and why the great hearts leadership.

Albert: Thinks a traditional liberal arts education is the best way to educate young people to live happy and intellectually meaningful lives.

Helen: Well, you’ve anticipated the answer in the question a little bit there. I’ll bet.

Albert: Oh, no, I give a leading question. That’s that’s not good.

Helen: Let me start with, I guess, the kind of philosophical underpinnings.

Helen: And then I’ll talk a little bit about, you know, what are some of the kind of key. Elements or objectives of classical education, but just before I jump in there for those who aren’t familiar. Great hearts academies is a network of now nearly 50 academies. We’re in Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, and we also have an online school that serves kids all over the United States through private, you know, voucher funded a voucher funded platform.

Helen: And we’ve got about 30, 000 students enrolled this fall, but in terms of the, you know, kind of philosophical underpinnings of classical education, it’s really about equipping young people to navigate ups and downs of life by acquainting them [00:14:00] with the wisdom of the ages. And so. We really begin from a place of humility and the idea that those who’ve come before us and that’s that which has survived the test of time has something to tell us about our present condition.

Helen: So we ground ourselves in, you know, the tradition, but not uncritically. So, classical education at its best, I think is really about initiating young people into the great conversation, you know, bringing them into dialogue with past masters and inviting them to engage thoughtfully with the human condition over the centuries.

Helen: So it’s not simply about, you know, veneration or hero worship, but in terms of what the key elements of classical education are, it really encompasses all the disciplines. So humane letters, which is a kind of composite of literature, philosophy and history, language arts, so that would often in a classical school encompass Latin and ancient Greek, but not, not always, the fine arts and of course, a heavy emphasis on mathematics and the natural sciences.

Helen: And so it’s a. Integrated approach really aimed at, you know, human flourishing. And [00:15:00] so all of these disciplines combine with the intended end of teaching students to think well, speak well, write well, and ultimately to to live well. You know, another hallmark of classical education is this thing we call the trivium and that’s the idea that you, you know, start in the early years with young kids the grammar phase, which is basically the idea that, you know, you need to learn the kind of building blocks of What it is to, you know, read and write, add up and so on.

Helen: You then move into the logic phase, which is, you know, putting together these building blocks. How do they connect? How do you form an argument? What is it to, you know, master an equation? Those kinds of things. And then finally, the rhetoric phase, which is where you start to kind of construct your own novel premises and, you know, having learned the rules, Then, you know, engage with and kind of riff on them a little bit.

Helen: So, the key way to sort of sum up classical education, I think, is it’s really about human formation. The idea of kind of, you know, creating virtuous young men and women who are good, both [00:16:00] intellectually and morally. it’s not an easy or a linear process. It’s, it’s as messy as human relationships.

Helen: It takes time. I can’t remember now who said this, but, you know, there’s a great line that you graduate from a classical education when you die. So, you know, it’s really about preparation for life, not merely for, you know, college admission or a particular place in the workforce, but, how to live well in community with others is really what we’re trying to do.

Albert: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m still working on that for the record. But let’s talk a little bit more about the math and science curriculum. I mean, let me just say, you know, people usually, you know, Associates classical liberal arts education, whether it’s a great hearts or not with focus only on the humanities.

Albert: But you mentioned math and science. Math, of course, is very dear to my own heart. So could you talk about the academic curriculum in not only humanities, but also in math and science and how Together, they more fully shape the outlook and character of great heart students really just kind of picking up on last point.

Albert: You were you’re [00:17:00] making.

Helen: Well, yes, I mean, as as you said, Albert, we, you know, classical education takes mathematics and natural sciences very seriously. And that’s because we believe there are different ways of knowing reality, different ways of learning about the universe and each of the disciplines kind of brings a unique perspective or or language to to those age old questions.

Helen: And so. Our approach to mathematics and scientific instruction is, is not simply about, you know, assimilating information memorizing facts. Although that is an important kind of foundation. It’s not just about getting to the right answer. It’s really about, sharpening the faculties in pursuit Of truth, and so, you know, cultivation of wonder and curiosity about the natural world is really the kind of point of departure for a lot of our mathematical and scientific inquiry. And we actually explicitly reward, you know, depth of inquiry and wonder in our grading rubrics across all of the subjects.

Helen: And we find this is particularly important in the so called STEM fields, because it means that all students, even those who. [00:18:00] don’t have a kind of natural facility for, say, advanced calculus or, or physics two, for example, still have a point of access and can develop a real affinity for these critical fields of inquiry, because asking good questions and developing a kind of informed wondering are really important.

Helen: Indeed, they’re, you know, the preconditions of, real inquiry in the STEM fields. So, yeah. All of our high school students will go through, you know, biology chemistry, physics 1 and 2 and all of our students will get to calculus, which is totally achievable. If you have good algebra instruction in the middle school.

Helen: So, just kind of put a bow on it. it’s an absolute cornerstone a complete classical liberal arts education. And I guess, you know, one of the proof points for that here at great hearts is that, you know, half of our grads end up in a STEM degree in college and generally report that they were really well prepared for that through the classical liberal arts program that they had with us.

Albert: Well, yeah, that’s great to hear. Well, speaking of preparation let’s get into a little bit [00:19:00] of like civics preparation. Alicia and I’ve been talking a bit about the political moment we’re in with lots of division across many different kinds of lines. But classical education has a way of unifying us.

Albert: And so, could you talk about how teachers, you know, your teachers really use enduring ideas, for instance of justice drawn from, you know, Plato and Aristotle all the way to for instance, kind of more contemporary, even, you know, African American intellectuals W. E. B. Du Bois, for instance, Martin Luther King, who you know, interacted with those authors.

Albert: does all the texts that we have from them teach students about these enduring ideas of justice, democracy and the like.

Helen: Well, you kind of traced a great through line in the various texts or, or sort of, you know, thinkers that you cited there, Albert And, you know, that through line is really a kind of preoccupation with questions of justice.

Helen: And that, you know, that is a fundamental preoccupation of classical education. You know, what these sorts of age old questions of, you know, what is just, what is true, [00:20:00] what is you know, this or that individuals, you know, do or write. These are really the dominant themes of most of the works that we read.

Helen: Not just, you know, Political philosophy, like, you know, de Tocqueville or Plato’s Republic, but also in a lot of the literature that comprises our Humane Letters program. And so, you know, you’ll see this, even in our very early years where, you know, youngsters are kind of drawn to these questions of fairness and justness.

Helen: somewhat innately. And so, is a good friend to toad? You know, what, what is, what is the meaning of friendship in Charlotte’s Web? these are the ways that we like to engage even very young children in these, Important and enduring questions. And so, we really, you know, we don’t have a kind of stand alone character formation program.

Helen: Really? The character formation comes through the engagement with great texts and in conversation about them. And you spoke a little bit about, Dr king and, all of our 9th graders, for instance, read letters from a Birmingham jail, for example. And it’s interesting that, you know, King quotes.

Helen: Augustine [00:21:00] and Aquinas on human dignity and natural law. And so, you know, our students are really learning to trace the lineage of these ideas and lineage of these truths. And what they come to understand is. That the civil rights movement was really the sort of the coming to fruition of seeds that were long planted.

Helen: And that a lot of the most articulate and effective civil rights leaders were those who had the benefit of a classical education. You could then deploy that classical learning to show that racial discrimination was really a, You know, a traducement or or a terrible departure from highest ideals of the Western tradition.

Helen: And I think that’s very good way to sort of engage young people in these, in these age old questions get them reading about these questions from texts that span, you know, the kind of full sweep of human history and realize that, you know, You know, the human condition hasn’t really changed that much, a lot else has, but there are some of these things that are kind of constants in time, and that helps them to put in perspective that, you know, their own troubles, their own daily [00:22:00] travails, and also to understand that, to invoke you know, a previous president, the arc of history does sort of bend towards justice, but it requires people of, you know, character and courage sort of stand up for it.

Alisha: Well, Helen, this has been really great for me. I’m just now learning about the classical liberal arts charter schools and this whole way that we’re educating kids. And so I love it. I’m sure that if I were of school age, my mom would put me in one of these schools. So, thank you for this model. So I want to talk about.

Alisha: How you are grappling with some of the challenges. I think that many schools are dealing with. great hearts charter schools are located in historically low to average performing states on Nate that also have a lot of school options in the communities. And so can you talk about how you select or prepare your teachers?

Alisha: How you might align your school curricula with state standards how you navigate the state’s regulatory bureaucracies and how [00:23:00] you compete within this ever growing portfolio, if you will, of all of these school choice options.

Helen: Yeah, that’s a great question, Alicia. I mean, take each in turn. So. probably beginning with the most important, which is, you know, how we source and prepare our teachers.

Helen: So, we really seek teachers that are drawn to our mission of cultivating hearts and minds. We don’t need them to necessarily have certification or a conventional credential. And so that you know, that makes states that aren’t quite as doctrinaire about conventional teacher preparation, more attractive places for us to operate.

Helen: What we’re really looking for is. teachers who have a love of their discipline and expertise in their discipline and a facility for coaching young people and, really a love of children. And starting from there, we then, you know, layer in a lot of teacher development and we’re really proud of the teacher pipeline and, training programs that we’ve developed now over over two decades.

Helen: You know, that’s really the key to great heart success. It’s not just the curriculum. The curriculum is [00:24:00] absolutely important. It’s indispensable, but that’s not really our sort of special source, so to speak. the key thing for us is the quality of the human being that you put in the classroom with students.

Helen: and so that’s absolutely vital for us. And we work really hard at building relationships with colleges all over the country to source our teachers. And we also work really hard in identifying, perhaps older people who are looking for a career change. We’ve got a former NASA astrophysicist who is now teaching calculus at one of our academies.

Helen: We’ve got. Military spouses who have decided that, you know, now that they’re settled somewhere for a period, they would really like a student in the classroom. And pretty creative about where we find our teachers, but we’re also pretty exacting about the kinds of characteristics that they have to have.

Helen: But that’s not to say that, you know, you can’t build and cultivate those, some of those characteristics over time. So on our curriculum our curriculum is, is, publicly posted on our websites, our reading lists, you know, none of this is proprietary per [00:25:00] se but what we really look for in terms of, you know, state regulation and so on uh, places where we don’t have to make too many modifications to what we think are important curricular decisions in terms of, you know, scope and sequence and so on.

Helen: So, certain modifications are fine, you know, if we’re required to teach, for example, louisiana political history in grade 9, that’s fine. absolutely accommodate that. But I guess anything that required us to, you know, overly modify our humane letters sequence, which is really kind of the capstone of our program.

Helen: That would be a challenge for us. You know, if we were required, for example, to break up humane letters into discrete units of, English language, arts, philosophy. That would And history, for example, rather than the integrated program of Socratic dialogue that, we currently have it.

Helen: It’s that would probably be a deal breaker on other regulations. You know, the ones that probably most matter to us a charter application and renewal processes and typically we prefer states that have. A statewide [00:26:00] authorizer over districts, but that said, you know, we’re learning to work with districts as well.

Helen: We certainly see a future in partnering with school districts who are interested in adopting aspects of the classical model. I guess another factor would be, you know, state and district funding and whether there’s sort of. Equity across state district funding charter schools. That’s often important.

Helen: And then finally, you alluded to, you know, increase competition. you know, we embrace competition. We think competition is good because competition provides more options and it raises everyone’s game. It, you know, encourages the market to offer what families are looking for. But that also means that we have to continue to work hard to explain why classical education matters to everyone.

Helen: Why we think it is the best model for everyone. And so we have to work hard to kind of demystify that and make it relatable and attractive to new audiences all the time. other thing that’s kind of on our minds right now is demographic changes, the fact that there are fewer kids being born in the United States today, and yet at the same time, you know, [00:27:00] building costs are increasing.

Helen: So, you know, it’s a tricky time for trying to grow a network of charter schools across multiple states, even though we know there’s still a lot of demand for what we’re doing.

Alisha: That is super helpful. And I think a lot of best practices that can be learned across states. public education. So thank you for sharing that.

Alisha: I want to go back to a nation at risk in 1983. The overall K 12 outlook had been gradually trending towards education is workforce development or training instead of education grounded in high quality academics. So can you talk about how great hearts makes the case? For a traditional liberal arts education while also preparing students for both higher education and careers in this global economy

Helen: Yeah, there’s a lot in that question.

Helen: And maybe I can start by challenging the the implied dichotomy, your question Alicia, I think you know, we would contend that education grounded in high quality [00:28:00] academics And aimed at, you know, so cultivating virtues is also an education that prefers students for higher education and careers in the global economy.

Helen: So, somewhat ironically, I suppose, in prizing, you know, higher and different ends. I think classical education meets the utilitarian challenge really very well. And so this is a message that we, you know, Constantly trying to broadcast a current and prospective families all the time, and we’re always refining it.

Helen: But the idea that, is timeless is also, you know, indispensable to the present moment. If you are grounded in, you know, the best that’s been thought and said, if you have. The full complement of, you know, all the liberal arts, including a rigorous, you know, math and science education, you’ll be prepared for what comes.

Helen: and so, classical education is not, you know, high fluid and it’s not elitist or impractical. Indeed, it’s, highly practical. It’s highly applicable to life for all of it, not just for, you know, college admission or a particular job. And so I think we’re starting to see. [00:29:00] The culture move our way a little bit here.

Helen: I think there is a growing recognition that, you know, the culture is kind of polarized, you know, fractious and that credentialism is not necessarily a, you know, recipe for a fulfilling life or indeed, even a secure position in a very rapidly evolving job market. So, I think, when we look at Jonathan Heights, recent book on the damage that’s been wrought by smartphones and There was a recent Atlantic article on the fact that elite college kids can’t or won’t read, you know, full books.

Helen: all sorts of concerns about how AI is going to affect people’s employability and so on. think classical education is the antidote to all of this stuff. It, shuns the, cheap kind of dopamine hits of social media, prizes books, especially old ones because they’re enduring sources of wisdom and consolation and amusement.

Helen: And you know, I’d be willing to bet right now that the classically educated are going to be the ones who have wherewithal to deploy AI judiciously, as opposed to just being kind of acted [00:30:00] upon by AI.

Alisha: I love that response. Thank you. So I want to talk about funding for education. And what we’ve seen over the last recent years um, of this sort of massive federal K 12 expenditures.

Alisha: And education. So we’re talking race to the top, ESSA, now COVID relief NAEP, and so NAEP reading and math scores have declined and achievement gaps are largely unchanged or widening, and it’s a huge issue for us. Can you talk about the strengths and weaknesses? Of federal K 12 spending and policymaking and where you see public charter schools like Great Hearts fit into the wider national policy landscape.

Helen: Yeah, another really interesting and wide ranging question. I mean, let me start with specifics and then I’ll kind of build on that. Broaden my answer in terms of specifics about, you know, how does the federal policy regime affect us at great hearts? I mean, the obvious ways in which it affects us are [00:31:00] our funding.

Helen: And I guess, one of the major influences of of the federal government in education is sort of the power of the purse string, so to speak. I mean, there’s the power of the purse string and the bully pulpit. And those are the kind of To, you know, the both the carrot and the stick, I guess, that the federal government wields in education.

Helen: So, you know, things like Title 1 funding are very important for us. it waxes and wanes a little bit depending on enrollment profiles every year, but between 6 and 10 Title 1 schools you know, we receive important support from federal grants for our SPED students. We’ve also been Very happy to benefit from the charter school program that the, that the federal government runs, you know, which provides grants for new charter schools and expansion and replication grants for successful operators.

Helen: So, those are, I guess, the ways in which the federal government affects our life as great hearts most directly. Beyond that, I think, you know, you’re raising a really interesting question about, you know, what is the role of the federal government and [00:32:00] how effective can the federal government be?

Helen: And I, I guess in a country that is as large and diverse as the United States, are always going to be limitations. Some would say I’d probably be one of them. There should be limitations on the influence of the federal government. That, you know, local influence over education is important. You know, those on the ground who understand the realities most closely are probably going to make better decisions than those who are, many thousands of miles away.

Helen: But there’s also the very practical reality that the federal government faces a lot of what we would call in, you know, public administration or economic circles, principal agent problems that the idea being that, you know, the principal has to get the agent to do what they want. And in education, there are.

Helen: You know, there’s this long chain of, devolved control, I guess, from, you know, the education secretary sitting in Washington through to what is happening every day in the classroom, you you go through, you know, the federal bureaucracy to the state bureaucracy to, you know, school districts, the [00:33:00] superintendent, the head of the school, right through the teacher and at any point in time, Point in that chain, you know, someone can defect from, I guess, the intended wishes of that principle, not necessarily because they’re being, you know, deliberately disobedient, although that does occur sometimes, but just because it’s hard, you know, implementation is hard.

Helen: And so the more links in that chain of implementation, the more difficult it gets. And so I guess that’s my broader perspective on federal educational influence and why it’s inherently limited. But think broadly, it’s a, good thing that the federal government has limited influence.

Alisha: I love that. I appreciate that answer. So here’s my last question. And it’s similar to the previous question, but I would love for you to give some advice. You’ve been doing this incredible work in schools and seeing great results. And so you’ve also been working in education policy for several years and have had some high level international experience.

Alisha: What would you like to see [00:34:00] U. S. governors, state legislatures, local officials, and parents do to dramatically improve academic outcomes for America’s schoolchildren? That’s what we need more than anything right now.

Helen: Well, that is a, huge question. And let me say that I, I certainly don’t purport to have, all the answers or even necessarily the best ones, but let me offer a few thoughts.

Helen: So I think. We’ve recently seen certainly at the state level significant increases in school choice. there’s been across a lot of states recently an increase in, you know, education savings accounts or, you know, voucher type devices. That, in my view, is a good thing because it enables families, particularly families who’ve not historically had the means to access, you know, private options.

Helen: really liberated the demand for different and better options. But. There hasn’t yet been a kind of commensurate supply side set of solutions. And by that, I mean, if you’ve liberated all of this demand, how do you then ensure that there are [00:35:00] great options, high quality options to meet that demand?

Helen: And operators like us would be certainly interested in helping to meet that demand, but that requires. You know, a building buildings are expensive. You know, so things like, 1st, right of refusal on vacated district buildings, but proven high quality providers could be something that, you know, state governments might consider doing.

Helen: think that could be a, an important and powerful change in terms of making the market more responsive to this newly empowered set of parent demands. I think a bigger picture reform that I’d love to see is just continuing the very good efforts that have started in a lot of states to improve initial teacher education.

Helen: So, there’s been a lot of great work to institute things like, you know, science of reading in teacher training in certain states. I mean, a lot of that’s been inspired by the brilliant work of Emily Hanford and others. In England, we saw you know, phonics checks mandated for all, I think for all five-year-olds, or maybe six year olds, which [00:36:00] really ensures that, every kid is off to a good start in terms of their literacy acquisition.

Helen: And we’ve since that change, which came in about 10 years ago, we’ve seen England is rocketed up the pizza tables for English language arts. And I think that’s a really good indication of what’s possible if you If you take early literacy instruction seriously, make sure that every teacher is schooled in, you know, phonetic instruction.

Helen: And, you know, more generally, I think teachers thrive and want to stay in the classroom if they are graduating steeped in their discipline and equipped with kind of practical skills of classroom management. I think those two things are, you know, not always the case. In terms of teacher training these days think, you know, a knowledge rich curriculum, the idea of cultural literacy first, you know, sort of propagated most famously by E.

Helen: D. Hirsch is exactly the right direction because Literacy reading well is not just about decoding. It’s about also understanding what you’re reading and having the kind of cultural literacy to make those links. And then I think a final point I make on teaching is [00:37:00] just making it more attractive for people to both, you know, into the profession and then stay in it.

Helen: And one of the key ways I think we could do that is make it a more manageable job. we can’t make it so demanding that only, you know, saints and masochists want to do it. we need. To enforce behavioral standards, and I guess this is where parents come in, in, you know, helping teachers in terms of, you know, maintaining good standards of decorum amongst students you know, so that classes can be about teaching and learning, not just crowd control, but another really important point, and this is where a previous guest of yours, Robert Pondicio, has, has written about this at length, I think very effectively is how can we make the job of teaching less about, the constant reinvention of the wheel with lesson planning and more about the intervention and instruction and making good judgments, you know, in the moment about how to teach a kid a particular concept.

Helen: So, you know, Pondicio has written a lot about how, you know, most teachers are drawing their lesson [00:38:00] plans. From, you know, Pinterest or Teachers Pay Teachers and places like that, like, that shouldn’t be the case. We should have really high quality, well vetted materials that are widely available to teachers such that they are not, hastily piecing something together from the internet on Sunday evening.

Helen: But instead of being given, you know, really great lesson plans that set them up for success and make them, you know, make their teaching about, you know, The actual teaching as opposed to the kind of hasty preparation beforehand. So those would be a few suggestions. I’m sure I’ve missed some obvious things, but think if those things were to happen, we would, we would see some significant improvement.

Alisha: I would agree. Very robust. I appreciate that. Helen, it was so wonderful to have you. What a great conversation, great responses to our questions. So thanks for being with us today.

Helen: It’s been a pleasure.[00:39:00]

Albert: Well, I enjoyed that conversation. you know, Alicia, like I said, I always enjoy talking to Dr. Bexendale and so it was a treat to have her on.

Alisha: Great to meet her and talk to her. Very refreshing and inspiring to hear great things happening in education.

Albert: Yeah,

Alisha: that’s right. That’s right.

Albert: Well, that’s gonna bring us to the end of our show, folks.

Albert: And before we close out, though I do want to give the tweet of the week. This is coming from Education Next. Americans would like schools to help mold students into astute thinkers. Thinkers, productive workers, engaged citizens and decent human [00:40:00] beings. Once we dig into the details, however, we begin to see significant disagreements that break down along party lines.

Albert: Well, I mean, I guess that tweet kind of accurately captures the article. I mean, thanks to David Houston. You know, I usually like to read articles about polls. But what David has done is actually analyzed multiple polls to see what we might learn about where the American public stands on a variety of education issues.

Albert: And you know, as, as the tweet suggests, there are some partisan differences, but I really want to, you know, just Alicia, we, we started the show probably trying to bring out what, folks share in common. And then, you know, I, I want to end on that note that that article really brings that out.

Albert: His article brings that. reality out to that at the end of the day there’s huge agreement, you know, across party lines among all parents, they want to see schools really focus on student learning you know, great academic instruction. And so, we were beginning the show talking about hoping for a new coalition and seeing some, good work get done in education.

Albert: [00:41:00] Hey, you know, if, if these polls are right. There’s actually quite a bit of agreement and benefits are differences really. And so, yeah, I hope some leaders can bring folks together and let’s get some stuff done. That’s right. Well, anyway, Alicia, Hey, thanks for being on the show with me.

Albert: Been a while, but pleasure to be back together. That’s right. Great to be

Alisha: with you. And guess I’ll see you next time.

Albert: Yeah. See you next time and see everybody else next time. And speaking of next time, I do want to plug our guests. We’re going to have. Governor Chris Sununu, 82nd governor of the state of New Hampshire.

Albert: So please join us next week for that conversation until then be well.