Surf, Skate, Learn: Hands-On Science for Homeschoolers

Homeschooling Journeys with Uli and Toni of Surf Skate Science transcript edited for clarity

[00:00:00] Mike Goldstein: I’m Mike Goldstein with Homeschooling Journeys. My guests today are from Surf Skate Science. We are so glad to have them. They are Uli and Toni. And could you start by telling us, paint a picture for us. A kid who shows up for one of your surf classes, for example, what happens? What do they experience?

[00:00:31] Toni: Well, our classes are designed to be like a hands on, project based learning STEM class. We do a 45 minute lab at the beach or at the skate park.  We set up a pavilion or a tent, they do a science experiment, and then they go in the water with Uli and have fun on a surfboard.

[00:01:01] And so if we’re teaching physics, they take that physics lesson to the ocean, or if we’re talking about marine biology or chemistry, they get to learn a little more while they’re in the water, while having fun surfing. Same thing happens at the skate park. So, maybe we’re talking about architecture, and then he’ll take them to the park and skate with them, but he also adds in the lesson, talking about how ramps are designed.

[00:01:26] Mike Goldstein: So, I had this thrill as I was reading your website, because 25 years ago, I created a charter school, and in our application, I described lots of (aspirational) examples of learning like what you just described.

Where we failed, though, was we were not able to consistently offer these types of opportunities, because of the specialization it takes.  You’ve been solving that for years and making it happen.

Can you share with us, when a parent first reaches out to you and says, “I’m interested,” what is the pull for them?

[00:02:30] Toni: Mostly it’s by word of mouth. It wasn’t something we intended to start. Our youngest son was very active. Our neighbors, their youngest was the same way. They were both homeschooled. And both families were like, what are we going to do with these kids?

[00:02:49] And we needed them to focus on school, but the only thing they wanted to do was skateboard or jump on trampolines. So at the same time, we’re dealing with a tragic school shooting in our area, and kids just needed something to do. The school was shut down. So we just started meeting at the beach or at the skate park, and me being a nerd about science and learning, I wondered how can we incorporate school with that?

We do post on some Facebook forums for homeschoolers. We’ve gone to a couple of homeschool conferences, but usually those happen after we’re already full.  So it’s more just to be present and to meet other people.

Parents contact us, they get registered. We are a co-op, so we share the expenses. So we’ll create a budget for the semester, divide it by the number of kids in class, and that’s around what our fee is. And then, yeah, and then they come to class and they just enjoy learning with us.

[00:03:57] And pretty much how I figure out the curriculum, we do something different every semester, is I just dream of what I would have wanted to do in school, and what people used to tell me “No” to at the school we worked at. And I’m like, I can do anything I want. This is our program.

[00:04:16] So last semester we talked about physiology. This semester we’re talking about the engineering of the future and how that’s going to look.

And so we get to do something different every term, which is a lot of fun. And I get to just imagine and dream and come up with lessons.

[00:04:34] Mike Goldstein: Uli and Toni, you’re, you’ve got a partnership. Toni, you’re dreaming up the lessons. Uli, are you figuring out how to implement the lessons?

[00:04:45] Uli: I ran a skate park for many years. I was a skateboarder growing up and I was that kid in class that fell through the cracks, man. Teachers didn’t know how to deal with me cause I didn’t test well.

[00:04:56] It’s even hard for me to be in this podcast right now, but I’ve learned to, you know, struggle through it in, in, in great ways.  But I’m a skater and surfer and I apply what I learn with the students.

In the summer, I run a skate camp for kids who have nothing to do with skateboarding. They’re not skaters. They just come in and I introduce them to this lifestyle. And one of the things I love to do is, um, Um, teach them the basics, but also we were talking about skateboarding and how it’s forward motion. It’s all about Isaac Newton’s and the laws of motion and all that. And I just love applying that.

So on Monday, I take about 20 kids with me and we go to the skate parks. And they have no idea to get on a board, but I have other kids that are really good skaters. So I spend time with them and get them by Wednesday, they’re starting to move a little, right?

[00:06:56] Mike Goldstein: Uli, you used the word: Lifestyle. And it makes me think, at the same time you’re educating kids about the science.

[00:07:05] For example, one thing I noticed with my daughter learning karate is it’s a husband and wife teacher team there. There’s a lot of values there’s transmitting, you know, through martial arts. And I wondered if that’s also true through surf and skate. Are there key ideas or values you’re able to discuss with kids as they struggle to learn the basics of proper movement?

[00:07:32] Uli: Well, absolutely, because it’s all about trust and faith. And when you drop in a ramp, a four foot ramp, and you’re, you got your board up against the coping, and you’re about to take that first step, it’s gnarly, it’s scary, and it’s not going to happen The first time, and if I’m not there holding your hands, you might, your injuries might be severe.

[00:07:54] It is dangerous. Skateboarding, when you fall can hurt. But I teach them, I call it the insurance plan, right? Tell them to put on your pads, put your helmet on. Your helmet, gotta protect that melon, that’s where your brain is. And I talk to them about that. I tell them the importance of that. And then we talk about confidence.

[00:08:13] We talk about perseverance. We talk about embracing your failures because that’s where, for me, that’s where my success came out of is through my failures and wanting to succeed. To be successful because I feel every day, like every day I do something and I’m like, man, I gotta do better. I gotta do something different.

[00:08:34] And you learn through it. And that’s skateboarding because if you go and see like a skate video and you see those guys do those tricks, you have no idea that they spent months doing that same trick at that same spot. And all you’re seeing is the success. You’re not seeing the slams, unless you wait till the credits.

[00:08:55] And you’ll see all the slams.  And you got to think why would you put your body through that? It’s because of the love you have. And I don’t know. I, I, it’s through my passion through it. Toni’s more about, I think she’s more practical in a sense of like education and understanding.

[00:09:15] I was the kid that I only went to college to please my dad. Cause he wanted, but he had no idea. I had a 1. 7 grade point. I hadn’t, I couldn’t go, but guess what I did? I wrestled and got a scholarship to go to Michigan and all of that. And I did it because I want him to be happy. And now he’s really happy with what, what’s going on.

[00:09:37] Right. But I had to fail a lot and I had to also feel. Like a failure because I, I don’t learn like that.

[00:09:45] Toni: And that’s like the, and for me, like, that’s the scientific process. You’re looking for a trick. You want to land this trick. So say it’s an Ollie. You want to learn how to jump up on your skateboard, catch, put a little air underneath your board.

[00:09:57] How are you going to do that? So you might watch videos. You might ask your friends. Then you’re going to try it. You’re going to listen to their instructions and try it. Most of the time, you never succeed the first time. Then you have to try it a little different. Maybe you just need to move your feet a little bit, change the way you’re doing things.

[00:10:14] And it’s the scientific process in action or the engineering process or the design process. So not only are they learning that and practically learning that by doing it, but they’re learning like critical 21st century skills. They’re learning social, emotional learning. Um, they’re doing all kinds of different things.

[00:10:32] So they’re learning about resiliency and confidence and, and being able to get up from a fall. And that’s what we all have to learn in life to be successful adults. So it’s all encompassing. So it’s not just that they’re learning STEM or STEAM, but they’re also learning critical life skills that they’re going to need in the future.

[00:10:50] So it’s really, for me, Action Sports is the perfect vehicle to be able to create successful adults that can succeed in everything. We don’t think all these kids are going to become professional skateboarders or professional surfers, but we hope that they learn something from the class that they can take in the future with them.

[00:11:08] And they’re like, Hey, if I could drop in on a four foot ramp or a six foot wave, I can do anything.

[00:11:14] Uli: Yeah. I didn’t become a pro skater, but I was able to build a skate park that produced some pro skaters and some Olympic athletes.

And when I was told that I couldn’t build this bowl or I couldn’t build this ramp, I was like, I’m going to do it. And I did it. And I facilitated and I managed and I brought all these people.  Awesome ramp builders. They lived in my house. We built this skate park together. So if there’s passion, there’s a way to do it.

And through that, I learned so much about math and I learned about, you know, Understanding fractions and understanding that you gotta be on some of the things.

[00:12:09] You gotta take the time to square things up before you build. Cause if not, your ramp’s going to be all, you know, yeah. You’re just going to be all jaggedy.

[00:12:18] Mike Goldstein: Yeah. Look, two things come to mind just as I hear you both share the story.

One is, kids respond to authenticity and precision of instruction. So it’s, it radiates through our Zoom that you love this stuff. Kids notice that they can tell the difference between someone who really lives it and somebody who’s kind of trying to, you know, Fake it, if you will.

The second thing is, there’s so much difference in the early interaction of a kid on whether, for example, when they first, you know, step on a skateboard, there’s the right, exact nuance that you’ve built over years, Uli, of how to do that, how to help them, and they might fail, but you know exactly how to get them back on the board and so forth.

[00:13:07] So that’s one wonderful thing that. Ron Mattis, who’s a researcher in Florida, who introduced us from Step Up for Kids. One thing he’s so excited about with the education savings accounts is there’s other people like Uli and Toni out there that have something that they love, that have just the right partnership of that, that you guys each bring something unique, but as a pair, you’re so powerful in so many different domains.

[00:13:40] That for a long time have been, if you will, on the sidelines of our education process because it’s so formalized. And what he’s excited about is hundreds and thousands of people like you getting a chance to offer something extremely special and memorable to so many more kids. I like that vision too and so that leads to a question of what’s it been like for you?

[00:14:10] With the homeschool families that you serve, are they able essentially to pay for you because they have this scholarship, or tell us a little bit about the mechanics of how your nonprofit works and what’s different Because of the scholarship than if it just didn’t exist.

[00:14:30] Toni: Yeah, I think we’re very blessed as homeschool parents ourselves and living in Florida and being able to have this funding.

[00:14:38] So it passed not this past July, but the July before there were a few kings along the way, but parents were able last year to get reimbursed mostly for any expenses that they did out of system. So that. might be a STEM class like ours, or we have a friend that’s a neuroscientist that teaches neuroscience or cooking or whatever it is.

[00:15:01] We even take kids shark tagging with University of Miami and FIU and that funding can actually pay for those experiences where kids get to learn hands on. And so by mid year we were able to direct bills so a parent didn’t even have to have money come out of their pocket. And we live in South Florida.

[00:15:21] It’s expensive. So I don’t care how much you earn if you have five kids you’re homeschooling, it’s expensive. Even if our program, we try to keep as affordable as possible, no matter what, if you have five kids and the cost of living in South Florida, it’s tough. So this extra money is a game changer. And so, with our family, our son has some school choice funding, and he’s in school for welding, and it’s been able to help with his welding supplies and his classes, he’s been able to take some courses that he’s really interested in as a junior, now senior, and it’s definitely allowed more opportunities, and now with direct billing, it offers opportunities to all families, regardless.

[00:16:03] Where I think last year you had to have the money ahead of time, this year we can just go ahead and bill so you don’t have to put that money out front for the kid and they can enjoy these different experiences. And the thing I’ve always loved most about homeschooling is instead of sitting six to eight hours in a school room, Usually studying towards achieving well in a test, my kids always got to explore what they were passionate about, and so that gave them opportunities to see what they liked, they didn’t like, and then my two older ones went on to college because that’s what they wanted to do.

[00:16:39] And they succeeded and did something they loved because they were able to explore that before they got there. Where I know when I was in college, most of my friends changed their majors their first year. My kids excelled, straight A’s, love what they’re doing. And then my youngest wants to go the trades route, very happy.

[00:16:58] But they were all able to try different things before they got there. And I think that makes a more successful adult. If you’re doing something you love and are passionate about, you’re going to do well at it. So I think that’s what all this gives an opportunity to do. You can try all these different things.

[00:17:15] Ron calls them a la carte learning experiences. So say you’re interested in culinary arts. We have a teacher that does that here in South Florida. Or say you want to be a doctor. We have somebody that you can work with that is a neuroscientist that makes it simple for an elementary student to learn. So, there’s so many options, and we’re just super blessed to live down here.

[00:17:37] Families who are homeschooling are just super fortunate to have that available.

[00:17:41] Uli: For, on my side, I can say, I think this is the first year we did for my summer program. So, Surfskate Science, we do, we do the normal class, and then in the summer, I run a program that is like a camp, but, With all our surfskate science things attached to it.

[00:18:01] So I take 20 kids with me instead of hiring other people. What I do is I get the kids, like when they’re about 15 years old, they come and help me. So I’m teaching them leadership skills and going with me and stuff. For me, It’s allowed some kids that couldn’t afford that program, especially summer camps and all that.

[00:18:19] It’s so expensive. I hear some people pay like 500 a week to do it. And it’s insane. How do you afford that if you want your kid to go through the whole summer? So I’ve seen the ones that went through the whole program, the whole summer, were a step up. And it was awesome. And these kids really felt a sense of community because they began in June and went all the way to August.

[00:18:43] And it’s something significant when you have, I can talk about one, Mila, and she’s about eight years old. And she came to my program and she has no business skateboarding. I don’t know why she got into it, but I invite that and by August, she’s dropping in 4 foot half pipes and loving it. You should see this and I wouldn’t have that opportunity to have that time with her if she wasn’t.

[00:19:11] I had that opportunity for step up because that’s her mom used that step up privilege, which I think is awesome. So that’s my side. I wouldn’t be able to have those kids. I don’t think mom could afford that.

[00:19:23] Mike Goldstein: Yeah. Funny. Just a quick thing. You said 500, just so you know, here in Boston last week, I spent 900 for a one week camp on my 14 year old.

[00:19:34] Prices are crazy all over. People

[00:19:36] Uli: ask

[00:19:36] Mike Goldstein: me all the time,

[00:19:37] Uli: how are you making money? I have a mom that always tries to give me extra tips because she’s like, How do you pay for gas? How do you do that? Yeah. Because we are a nonprofit and because of people like Ron and these people that encourage us and give us the way to do it, we’re able to do this type of stuff.

[00:19:55] I’m like.

[00:19:56] Toni: And we have a, this beautiful ecosystem, like he talks about of learners down here. So for us, what we’re doing, we rely heavily on those community partnerships. So whether it’s working with the University of Miami. Or the Sea Turtle Foundation here, or there’s all different ways that we’re able to keep costs down, but Step Up is, and just the school choice in general, Step Up is just one of the scholarship providers, has been a game changer for families.

[00:20:24] It really has. We have single moms that wouldn’t be able to do this that are still able to homeschool and work from home and do this.

[00:20:31] Uli: So I just want to say this because this is really neat. And so when we do the camp, usually on a Friday, we take them to like this snorkeling sanctuary and we teach them about all kinds of stuff.

[00:20:45] And it’s, we are still adapting like what we’re learning through surfskate science with this program. So even Mila being there, she was there from the beginning and the only students that did that were step ups. No other kids can really, so we might have them for one week, then they’ll do daily drop ins, but Amanda, Mila had the opportunity to go every week, and she loved it.

[00:21:11] Barely took a day off. There was a couple days where I was like, you need to take a day off. Go sleep in. But she, I’m so proud of her, you know, and, I don’t know, it wouldn’t be possible without a step up.

[00:21:24] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and so, a comment and a question. The comment is the kind of experience you’re describing for Mila, which is probably something 25 years from now she’s going to think back in memory.

[00:21:37] You’re building a very powerful memory, right? A lot of kids get through school and they don’t have That kind of positive learning memory, like their memories are more social of like friends or enemies, but they’re not as much on learning experiences because everything is so vanilla and seat based in typical school.

[00:21:58] So you’re giving her that. That’s so powerful. My question is, as a provider, sometimes, Programs have a lot of red tape or friction and sometimes they’re fairly easy. I wonder what, how has it been, and this might be more of a Toni question, I’m not sure, but that’s my guess, just to handle the becoming a registered recipient who’s allowed to access these monies, and I’m sure there’s portals, kickoffs, who knows, What’s involved?

[00:22:34] How hard or easy was it for you to get this engine flowing with the education savings accounts?

[00:22:42] Toni: So, there is an application process. There were, was, there were a lot of hurdles the first year. I don’t think I slept very much, but, especially when we have around 400 students, so you’re, if you think you’re billing for 400 students and I have to individually bill for each, it can be challenging.

[00:23:01] However, it has gotten nothing but better every year there. Um, as their training staff, the customer service has gotten better. It’s been a lot easier for me to do. So it’s definitely had its challenges. I won’t lie. It was tough . Um, and, and the same, I, you know, like I said, I’m a provider, but also a parent.

[00:23:20] So on, on the parent end, it’s been challenging and. But that also gives me a unique perspective to help families through it. And I think what we’re missing, I think everybody would choose to learn a little differently if they knew what they had available. My kids have gone to public school, private school, charter school, and then eventually landed on homeschooling.

[00:23:43] I remember they were in a great private school. We worked there. They had fabulous teachers, but everybody kept telling us that we should homeschool. And I fought it tooth and nail and said, Oh no, I’m never homeschooling. And once we went that route, it was the best decision I ever made for my kids. And so, so for me, I’m a big advocate of it.

[00:24:04] It worked really well for my kids. My kids are successful. Almost all of them are successful adults. I have a senior this year, but I think it’s the best thing. How many kids get to learn about marine science while they’re tagging a real shark, a 500 pound bull shark in front of them? I mean, You’ll never forget that.

[00:24:22] Or you’re learning physics as you’re dropping in on a skate ramp, or you don’t get those experiences. And I hope that we’re creating lifelong learners, kids that want to learn forever and enjoy it. Instead of kids that are just trying to get an A in class or just trying to pass a grade. And then we’re also instilling passions and just a love for just our environment.

[00:24:44] Solving problems. How are we going to make society better in the future? There’s so many things if we give the children hope and whether that’s in education or in, in being able to solve these complicated problems. Kids are anxious about the environment, about government. So we’re taking kids to City Hall to talk to their officials about building a skate park.

[00:25:06] They’re learning how to build things that, and come up with solutions that people have never thought of before. I think, yeah, the red tape, it was tough the first year. I think everybody was working through what’s this going to look like. And what are you able to spend this funding on? Are we going to let a homeschool parent buy 800 worth of Legos, you know, with their homeschool funding?

[00:25:27] And that was, It’s tough and, and working through what that looks like, but I think that, that if we just trust parents to make the best decision for their kids and cut out all that red tape, it just makes it a lot easier. And I think it has more than having one or two people that might abuse it. It’s really been a game changer.

[00:25:47] So, for me, it was challenging. It’s rough. There’s still times where I don’t sleep, like the couple weeks before classes, as I’m billing and doing stuff. But, it’s gotten a lot better, and it’s worth it for all these families to be able to have that opportunity, and I just see it getting better and better, and I hope more and more states have this opportunity.

[00:26:07] I think it’s just such a great opportunity for families. And I want every kid to love learning. I don’t want any kid to, to hate going back to school this year. I want every kid to be excited to go back to school. And so I think that’s what we’re creating is a place where kids are excited to get up in the morning.

[00:26:25] I think that’s my favorite compliment about our class is when parents say, my kids wake us up in the morning to go to class. And so we can do all the surveys and satisfaction surveys in the world. But when I hear that from a parent, that my kid dragged me out of bed this morning to go to your class, that’s the best thing I want, I can hear as a teacher.

[00:26:45] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, I have a friend up here in Boston named Scott Given who had founded and run some public schools, some charter schools, and now has some private schools. And he says when I I was with the Publix. The only data the state cared about was the test score changes in math and English of our students. And we were really good at that one thing, but I realized after I became a father myself, like, that’s just not close to the whole story.

[00:27:28] Now that he’s running private schools, says, I have an even mix between, I want to measure the wow moments for kids, which the state infrastructure in no state in our country cares about, measures the excitement, and attendance is really a bad proxy for that. It doesn’t really capture those kinds of memories.

[00:27:50] He also, and parents, they care about traditional achievement as well, so he has a balanced world now, and I think what’s possible. Many homeschooled parents seem to be doing is elevating what our Department of Education has not yet figured out. They might care about it, but since they don’t know how to measure it, It just falls away, and all it leaves us is the important, but not the only, thing of reading math, science, history, and so forth.

[00:28:21] You’re obviously hitting both of those things. You’re hitting a lot of traditional knowledge, but getting there in a different way. And that’s just such an exciting thing to, to see. So I’m just psyched that you shared some time with us. I hope that some people listening Not only get excited about your particular program, and you do have some online programs I should mention, so we’ll put your website into the show notes, but also that some other educators get excited that instead of trying to be pretty good at a lot of things, maybe they could follow your example and be awesome at a more specialized thing.

[00:29:01] Really serves as unlocks for kids like Mila, who just go there and go bananas with enthusiasm. So, Thank you so much for joining.

[00:29:12] Uli: It was a pleasure.

[00:29:12] Toni: Thank you very much.