Navigating Personalized Learning: Meghan's Role as a Guide at KaiPod Microschool

Microschool Journeys with Meghan from Kaipod (Edited for Clarity)

[00:00:00] Mike Goldstein: Hi, everyone. This is Microschooling Journeys with Curious Mike. That’s me, Mike Goldstein, here in cold Boston. And I’m joined today by Meghan, who is one of the two guides at the KaiPod Microschool in Nashua, New Hampshire. Welcome, Meghan.

[00:00:38] Meghan: Hi, thank you,

[00:00:40] Mike Goldstein: Meghan. I went earlier this week with my friend Spencer. We got a chance to see Kaipod.  We walk in the door and the first thing that I see is the seven young kids, probably average age of nine or 10.  They’re kind of in a classroom and they’re each independently working during this First work block session. Can you tell us: what was I looking at? What was happening?

[00:01:11] Meghan: So you are actually experiencing the first academic block here at Kaipod, which is usually in the morning.

It’s about an hour long.  We do it after some morning activities. We’ll have the kids come in and settle in, but then they’re in charge of their learning for that hour. So every kid was working on a different curriculum. And they were working independently, which is awesome.

[00:01:40] And they each were working on different subjects, between math, science, social studies, English, throwing in some spelling, vocabulary, and some other languages in there as well.

[00:01:52] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and I think the first thing to share: wow, the vibe is good in here.  Like, the kids get along and they’re productively engaged, each in their own thing.

So for you as a guide, that struck us as interesting because instead of, let’s say, all seven kids working on the same thing, where you might circulate and sort of say, “Oh, I’m going to help you with this or that.”

So tell us, like, how did the kids know what to work on? Where’s their curriculum coming from?

[00:02:30] Meghan: So, they are all homeschooled or doing courses online through other programs. So, their parents are in charge of their curriculum. They (parents) are in charge of either purchasing a curriculum, finding a curriculum, we do assist them if they need help, not coaches specifically, but other people at Kaipod who are very knowledgeable about curriculums, specifically homeschool curriculums, they can offer parents different suggestions too.

We have some kids in workbooks, they never bring a computer with them. They work in that workbook. They have a math workbook, a writing workbook, whatever. And then when they bring that work home at night, their parents are in charge of correcting it as well and kind of maintaining their child’s education. Other students are taking courses such as VLACs (virtual school). And so they all kind of bring in that curriculum from home.

[00:03:37] Mike Goldstein:

And for the homeschool kid, one of the reasons they come to you is: “okay, I’m getting a break from home, but I’m like productively working on my stuff.  And I have this guide here to help with the academics. Then the other thing is the socialization. There’s other kids here. I’ve got friends here. That’s fun too.”

I’ll get to the socialization in a second, Meghan. My question to you as a guide is, how do you know how much to help, who to help, when to kind of jump in, when to leave them be, because, like, is it that each parent kind of lets you know how they want you to roll with their kid during a typical day, or how are you figuring that all out?

[00:04:45] Meghan: So at the beginning of the school year, it was definitely kind of feeling it out. I was new to the position. I’ve been a public educator. So for me, I’m used to standing up in front of a room and teaching everybody. And this was totally different from that, but I definitely used a lot of the same skills.

[00:05:03] As I walk around the room, I kind of notice, Oh, like who’s been staring at the same page for three minutes. Who has been kind of looking at. You know, the, the ceiling, who seems like they might need help. Those are general things that, you know, most people have instincts on most educators or people who work with children, you know, you see them, you’re like, Oh, they probably need some help.

[00:05:24] They’re not doing anything. So, you know, that definitely is part of it, but then also parents have given us as time has gone on, as we’ve built relationships with parents, as we’ve built relationships with the students, we have been able to kind of figure out. And I’m saying we as in me and the other learning coach.

[00:05:42] Figuring out what works best with that student. You know, each student is different, and each one needs something a little different. And their parents know that, and we are learning that about them as time has gone on. And so sometimes I’ve directly asked parents, how much do you want me to be involved in your child’s education?

[00:06:00] How much do you want me to help? So we have parent teacher conferences. Just like a regular public school. And that way we get to really talk to parents. What is the goal for their child? Are they here for academic support? Some kids we have are just here for the social aspect. And they bring some school work, but that’s more upper pod kids.

[00:06:20] I find that the ways that I go about it is rotating the room, talking to parents about what their kids, what they want for their kids. And then I just kind of have been playing it by ear. Okay, let’s sit, let’s read the problem together. I’ll have the kid read it. I’ll see how their reading is, you know? So we kind of are building that relationship and building the support that they need as time has gone on, but it wasn’t always that easy.

[00:06:45] It definitely took, you know, a couple of weeks to kind of sit at my desk and be like, okay, none of them are asking for help. So some of them might just need me to sit next to them. So that piece of it was definitely a learning curve.

[00:07:00] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and so one of the first things I noticed was the format of the day, loosely, is: work block for an hour, for a while, work block again for an hour, another break, etc.

[00:07:17] And so after I saw that first hour of the kids mostly working independently, then there was like a 40 minute session or so, where you had, I think it was six or so kids gathered in a circle, you were joining them, they were playing a card game called Chameleon. And to me it looked different from typical break inside of a school.

It felt a lot more either like what a family would do or maybe certain summer camps. It was a very pleasant vibe and the kids were all engaged. Just tell us about like, when you have breaks…it seems like a thoughtful or an engaged break. What’s your strategy there? How are you thinking about that time?

[00:08:07] Meghan: So I try my best to let the kids decide what they want to do. So if a kid is content doing their academics, they’re allowed to work through social break if they need to. Um, but many kids are like, yes, it’s social break. Sometimes they sit in chat. Sometimes they, you know, we’ll go and, um, we’ve been really into listening to Christmas music on the iPads and, you know, dancing around to Christmas music.

[00:08:28] So they all kind of choose what they want to do. But I normally I’m like, all right, what game are we playing? Because I like to have at least one. Kind of guided activity going on. And then whoever’s not really into that game can kind of go and do what they want. But I always try to see like, what games do we want to play?

[00:08:45] I always ask them, okay, who’s interested in this game? Maybe we’ll play this one. Let’s switch it up for a bit. You know, I like to propose some sort of activity in there, but I definitely let, try to let them decide on what we play or what we do. That way they have some, you know, autonomy in it, but really it’s a, It’s supposed to be unstructured.

[00:09:05] It’s supposed to be kind of a free for all for them to kind of understand how to start talking to each other, how to start making friends, because for a lot of homeschooled kids, the number one thing that they’re missing is that social piece because they’re not going to public school every day. So that’s.

[00:09:21] You know, where that social break comes in and the kids love it.

[00:09:26] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, you had introduced me to a couple of the younger kids there. Nine years old.  They’re just adorable girls who are like “We’re best friends.  When each of us was being homeschooled only, we wondered about having friends outside of our families…”

Overall, there’s a whole bunch of ways that homeschool kids get that socialization; they join clubs and youth groups, church groups, competitive sports, all different ways.  But it was just very endearing to see these girls, one puts the arm around the other one, “Then I met you and my life opened up.”  It was joyful and peaceful.

I would contrast that experience with a different micro school a couple years ago that I visited in New York City.  They had a couple kids who clearly kind of didn’t want to be there and couldn’t work independently.  They not only threw the guides off kilter, were going bananas.  It sort of killed the whole micro school mojo for all the other kids. And over time, this micro school kind of systematically lost its kids and ultimately closed its doors.

I asked Spencer: You’ve seen probably a thousand teachers.  How would you rate Kaipod guides Meghan and Zach’s ability to relate to kids?

Spencer said: easily above the 90th percentile.

But I did wonder I could easily imagine different kids (if they showed up), who can’t work independently.  How do you think about that at your micro school? How do you admit students? Like, is it just luck of the draw that you got “good” kids?

[00:11:44] Meghan: I think there are other KaiPods that do tend to run into issues like that where they have some students who have maybe some behaviors that are out of the norm and do cause commotion during the day.

[00:11:58] I won’t say that never happens with us, but I will say that overall we did get incredibly lucky with the students that we have they are incredibly kind and wonderful and excited to be here. We do have those kids, though, who come here and they’re like: “I’m not going to do my academics.”

And it’s all based on parent communication. If a child is choosing not to behave. I’m going to message their parents.  “Student, I’ll let your parents know that these are the choices you’ve decided to make today.”

And if it becomes a severe issue, we are allowed to call parents and ask them to come pick up just like a regular school.

[00:12:37] I think that if you’re creating an environment that is welcoming and fun and engaging a lot of those behaviors go away. Not all of them, because you do have the kids who love to procrastinate and love to avoid their work.

That’s where my public educator kind of comes out and I’m like, “Learning is part of life. You need to learn how to do these skills. And if you want me to sit there with you while you do it, that’s fine, but you need to get some work done.”

We’re constantly in contact with parents.  So we’re constantly updating. “Hey, your kid had a great day today.”  “Hey, your kid wasn’t socializing a ton. Maybe there’s something going on.”  That way we’re kind of filling in what their parents aren’t seeing.

[00:13:34] Mike Goldstein: I get parents are in charge of the curriculum. They have this communication flow with you. That’s awesome. Do they ever observe their kids: “Put on your phone and let me watch my kid in action for half an hour or go into the pod and actually watch?”  Or is that not really a thing?

[00:13:57] Meghan: That’s not a thing.  We do demo days where we, a parent will come in with their child who is a prospective student and the parent will give them a tour, we’ll kind of ask them, you know, when did you start homeschooling, you know, have they been doing this for a while, is this new, just kind of basic questions so we understand where they’re coming from.

[00:14:18] We let them know a little bit about KaiPod and then give them the tour and then their student can actually stay for half a day and do academics. And we actually had multiple students do that before starting at KaiPod.

[00:14:32] Mike Goldstein: Got it. And so I get it from the parent side and do they are, what are they paying or are they paying to attend a KaiPod?

[00:14:40] Meghan: So KaiPod is not free. It is a paid program, but New Hampshire got a special grant during COVID that allowed for KaiPod to open. I don’t know exactly what the, you know, terms were, but they got to open the schools. It would be free because it was helping homeschooled kids and kids during COVID learn. And so as of this year, that grant is ending.

[00:15:07] So our parents, starting next year will have to pay.  Our boss actually flew to New Hampshire and gave an information night to each group of parents about the new enrollment and the new pay, which I thought was incredible because Zach and I don’t know a lot about it because that’s not our realm of knowledge.

[00:15:41] So the fact that she came here and didn’t have us kind of give out that information was awesome.  We can have up to 12 kids a day in our own pod, 24 total (between the 2 guides).  I think it’s a very reasonable cost for what I know daycare to be and other things and the parents heard the cost and felt okay about it, so.

[00:16:11] Mike Goldstein: Are some families in New Hampshire able to use the state’s education savings accounts?

[00:17:05] Meghan: I know that in New Hampshire if you don’t have your kid enrolled in public school you get a certain amount of money allotted to you for homeschooling curriculum and things, but I’m not positive on that.

[00:17:22] Mike Goldstein: Yes, and I should mention, by the way, it slipped my mind, but I tutored a kid last year who attended a Kaipod, and I think Mom paid with the education savings account.  (Full disclosure!)

[00:17:50] Mike Goldstein: About you.  So, I have the Meghan story in my head as your mom and dad are like lifelong school teachers, and your mom is like the head of one of the local teachers unions, so you grew up with like teachers as parents.  And you become a school teacher.

You’d spent four years doing that at some public schools in New Hampshire.  After four years, you reached the point of: “I’ve got nothing left to give.”

You were distraught and previously told me all kinds of stories. The messy curriculum, and it’s dumbed down.  There’s a severe special needs kid who’s not getting the right.  So you’re sort of solo in the classroom with a kid with acute needs and the training’s not necessarily good. And the parents might not ever even meet you or show up for a parent teacher meeting, so you don’t feel you have connection.

Is it fair to say, is my characterization or memory right, that after four years you were just fried on teaching in these New Hampshire public schools?

[00:19:30] Meghan: Absolutely. Fried is a great descriptive word for it. I lost all the energy that I had wanted to give and I just had nothing left.

[00:19:40] Mike Goldstein: Yeah. And I have to say as somebody I’ve been around schools quite a bit, like you can tell the vibe of a teacher. I mean, Meghan is a very high energy, emotional connector with kids.

[00:19:52] So it’s like, it’s a big deal that you felt this sense of being ground down by the system, if you will.  You’re exiting and you see some kind of ad for KaiPod and your dad says, “Wait a minute, I don’t know, this sounds a little too good to be true.”  What was the ad that you saw? What did you think you were signing up to interview for and then ultimately to do?

[00:20:26] Meghan: Yeah, so I was just looking on Indeed, put my resume in there and was looking at any job that would kind of keep me in the realm of education, but wasn’t necessarily public school.

I looked at the Kaipod description. This sounds interesting. A micro school, you work with homeschooled kids. I grew up with a lot of homeschooled kids. This could be really valuable. It could be, you know, maybe smaller numbers.

[00:20:57] It could be, you know, just the ideas of, you know, what this could look like. Intrigued me. And so I definitely wanted to apply.

My interview included someone who through a very similar experience to me getting into public education and just not finding it as a right fit.  “You’re going to love it,” and I thought this sounds absolutely perfect. And then I talked to my dad.  “You should make sure that it’s real.  I’ve never heard of this.”

Mike Goldstein: dad move. I endorse.

[00:21:53] Meghan: Um, so I looked a little bit more into Kaipod just to see, you know, what I was, you know, possibly getting myself into. And I had a couple more interviews and I just, I felt really great about it.

Something new and something different. I didn’t know if it was going to be a forever job.  But something that was going to help me continue to be an educator without the pressures of being a public school teacher.

[00:22:20] Mike Goldstein: Compare and contrast your initial training at your first public school when you were a rookie teacher, with the initial training you got at Kaipod.

[00:22:40] Meghan: Um, so as a public school teacher, I did not have a lot of training because it was 2020. So I was remote for Covid. Over the years, I would go to these trainings and they were just boring. I was in a room with a million other teachers. It was usually hot or really cold and like you never had the right temperature.  I was feeling bogged down,  “Oh, here’s another new thing I have to learn how to do. Oh, here’s another program you want me to learn. Oh, here’s another teaching strategy. Oh, we’re going to play this icebreaker game that no teacher wants to participate in.”

And then I went to KaiPod and we had our first training and there was maybe nine or 10 of us.  We did do an icebreaker, but it was the first time I was given an icebreaker and somebody said “Let me show you the purpose of this. Let me have you try it.”  It’s not a kid game. It’s a cool brainstorming activity. And then they started talking about KaiPod magic.  About how to communicate with parents – it was the first time I had ever had a training on how to communicate with parents. And then they kept going and kept going – and every day for 3 days I’d go home think “This is what I want to do.”  Like never have I felt that after a teaching training. So it was really awesome to feel connected and excited for a job that my bosses were just as into as I was.

[00:25:45] Mike Goldstein: Totally. You know, two comments I want to make about what you just shared.

One is everybody who’s listening who’s a teacher was nodding along as you’re describing that the typical training for teachers in traditional schools. The good case is sheer boring and not pragmatic.  The bad case is intellectually insulting and unbelievably stupid.  There’s a lot of veteran teachers who are so burned out on all these required dumb trainings, they’re literally not paying any attention. So it’s a weird vibe in a typical school district training. It just doesn’t even pass the reasonable person test. And so then by contrast, you go to Kaipod and it’s like 10 people in a room productively trying to get ready for a bunch of kids that are going to walk through the door.

Second thought is: I started a charter school 20 some years ago.  There was a guy, probably like your dad is now, who taught for 30 years.  He became our school principal, Charlie.

I’d learned a whole bunch of like theory from Harvard on how education works. Day 1, Charlie tells me “Mike, you can forget a lot of that stuff. What really matters is like the communication with parents.”

I said “Huh, nobody ever talked about parent communication in my two years at Harvard. It’s not really a thing.”  Charlie said: Oh, that’s everything.  If you can build relationships with each parent, everything about the school experience for the kid is going to go better. Like, you have more leverage, you can get them to try harder, you can enforce the rules, you can do all these different things.

[00:28:27] Meghan: Yeah. I will also say I feel like too with one of the things that our bosses promoted so much was the importance of the kids feeling safe.

And I would say that is something that we don’t stress or it hasn’t been stressed to me in public schools as a teacher. The official line is: “Oh, everybody should be safe, responsible, kind, respectful.”   But if they don’t actually feel safe, they’re not going to do academics, they’re not going to want to socialize, they’re not going to want to make connections.

So one of the biggest things our boss was saying was Every kid when they walk in that door needs to know that they are safe when they are here, that they are loved, they are safe and they are cared about. And that is priority number one. And that I agree is something that public schools are not doing.

Here, I will do whatever I can to make sure that you are okay.

[00:29:53] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and I think it’s important to stress that what we’re not talking about here is physical safety where public schools probably do a decent job.

What happens though, is from a kid’s point of view, sometimes during the classroom, but particularly recess, hallway, lunchtime, dismissal, arrival…that’s when a kid might not feel welcome.  I don’t really have any friends during that, time.  Maybe I’m not being actively, like, bullied, like, pushed into a trash can, but I’m being kind of passively bullied, depending on how you want to define it.

To me, I would just use a different word than safe to describe this place, like “welcome.”

[00:31:14] Meghan: Yeah.

[00:31:14] Mike Goldstein: Like, “welcome” is what I noticed of all the kids in the few rooms that you guys have here in Nashua on Main Street.  Every kid felt welcome. And Spencer and I are pretty good at, like, picking off kids and just sort of getting them to comment.  In many schools, they don’t necessarily feel physically unsafe, but they didn’t feel welcome either. They kind of felt neutral to cold.  And so their defense mechanisms were super high and that’s not what we saw in your pod.

[00:31:56] Meghan: Well, I’m really happy to hear that. We do have some upper pod kids that I think are still kind of figuring it out. And you know, it depends on the age too. Like, you know, some kids are going through that age where they’re really starting to figure out who they are.

[00:32:12] And I think that is like, why this is so valuable because we’re taking those kids at that really prime time. And we’re like, be kind and social and friendly and like hoping that they’ll get the idea.

[00:32:27] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, there’s plenty of conflict in any micro school. Of course, it varies in any classroom, but it’s what you get to maximize on is this feeling of warmth. What you give up is accountability for this curricular march that public schools do.

So with some of the kids, they’re probably, they almost certainly are making more progress than other kids. And the micro school is saying that’s okay, I’ll let the parent run with that. As a guide, I’m going to make sure the kid is feeling like engaged, productive and welcome. And there’s a little bit of trade off to that. But it seems to be certainly I’m so glad that families have that option and maybe increasingly have that option over time.

[00:33:11] Meghan: Yeah, and I think it’s too awesome to see, like, you know, we have parents who send their kids and they’re like, I just want my kid to get over this, like, kind of social shyness hurdle.

[00:33:23] And I’ve already had parents come in to us after a couple of weeks and said, My child was not friends with many people besides family members before this, and now they talk non stop. And so like, that in itself is like, I’m, I’m like, it’s only been a couple weeks, I don’t think I did that, like, so I think it’s just, it is the environment, it’s the atmosphere, but yeah.

[00:33:48] Mike Goldstein: Love it. So listen, thank you, Meghan, for your time. This has been Microschool Journeys with Curious Mike, and Meghan, coming to us from Nashua, New Hampshire, please give my regards to your colleague Zach. Enjoyed our time together, thank you.

[00:34:06] Meghan: Thank you so much!