Dr. Sheila Harrity on Worcester Tech & MA’s Urban Voc-Tech Schools

The Learning Curve Sheila Harrity

[00:00:00] Albert Cheng: Well, hello again everybody. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Learning Curve podcast. I’m one of your co-hosts this week, Dr. Albert Cheng, professor of Education Policy at the University of Arkansas. Joining me this week is Alisha Searcy. What’s up, Alisha? It’s, um, been a bit, we haven’t co-hosted in a while here. I think.

[00:00:20] Alisha Searcy: I know life is happening and that’s okay. Yeah. But we had some great stand-ins for us in both of our absence and things have been, well, no complaints. Hope all is well with you.

[00:00:30] Albert Cheng: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Can’t, can’t complain. Well, actually, so I don’t know, for those of you following national news, uh, tornado actually ran through our area. Oh wow. And just to be a little bit more precise, it ran through my neighborhood. So we are Okay. Some of our neighbors are not as fortunate. I mean, no injuries or casualties as I understand that. Okay. Lots of damage. Okay.

[00:00:49] Alisha Searcy: Things are getting recovered.. Well, that’s good.

[00:00:51] Albert Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll all get through and it was great to see the neighbors come together.

[00:00:55] You know, if you look at the news media coverage of this, I’m sure you’ll see my house next to some damaged houses, but we’re okay. So we’re thankful for that. Good. Very good. Thanks for listening and asking Alicia. Yeah. A little bit of local news. Um, for the rest of our listeners, I know they come from many parts of our country and Right as well.

[00:01:17] Alisha Searcy: And you have to know what’s happening in the rest of the country, in the world, and we’re real people right. With things going on, so Yeah, that’s right. Of all the times, right? In our lives we have so much going on politically and professionally, so we’re real people dealing with real things. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And again, you know, prayers and hope that everybody is well and that people can kind of recover and get back to their normal lives very soon.

[00:01:43] Albert Cheng: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that’s the hope and loving to see how, how resilient we all are in. Yes. So. But hey, let’s get to some education news. So, you know, Lisa, I, I’ve got a, I I’m calling it a double feature. Okay. Because, uh, it’s actually an article with a response. So our friend Robert Pondiscio, he wrote an article on his substack entitled A Missed Opportunity, how The AFT, that’s The American Federation for Teachers could have Changed Teaching and Learning.

[00:02:13] Maybe still can. And this actually prompted a response by a FT President Randi Weingarten, who wrote a response that’s featured at the Fordham Institute. And so it was really fascinating to see the back and forth here. So just to. Maybe summarize, you know, Robert Pondiscio, he was remarking about how in the American educator, which is AFT’s regular publication, that there are a bunch of articles that appear from time to time that include actual like wise, practical guidance for teaching and learning.

[00:02:47] And they cite folks like Edie Hirsch. I know we’ve, you know, talked about the importance of a content rich curriculum and how that kind of information, which I, I think is. Pretty crucial for our teachers to hear was being disseminated and is being disseminated in the American educator. And I think CIO’s critique is that.

[00:03:05] It hasn’t been done nearly enough. And instead that the publication, you know, I think Pondiscio would argue that, you know, they’re kind of being distracted by, and that’s my word, not his. Mm-hmm. Uh, focusing on larger political issues on of, of national scope, which I thought was an interesting argument and. It’s possible that back in the day it was when, when Al Shanker was running it right, there was this big focus on, on practice and thinking of the a FT more as a professional guild and, and less as a union.

[00:03:34] And so, you know, it gave me some pause to think like, oh, huh, I wonder if I. Things could have been different. And you know, Randi Weingarten’s response I think was interesting too. And, and her response, which again, I, I recommend listeners to look at both sides here and enter into this conversation. You know, she argued that, Hey, look, the things we argue about, issues in national politics, you know, to kind of strike to the core of what it means to be a, a, a democracy, uh, a representative, you know, to have a represent form of government where people have voice.

[00:04:04] Randi Weingarten’s counterargument was that these things are equally important. I don’t know if I fully agree with that. Like I do think Robert Pondiscio is really trying to drill down on a very narrow topic, right. Just the actual practice of teaching and learning. But I, I get what Randi Weingarten’s trying to argue too. Now, look, I, I know you’ve got a complicated relationship with unions. I didn’t know if you had anything to weigh in about this exchange.

[00:04:28] Alisha Searcy: Yes. And complicated and only that we seem to not be on the same page. Like I think we, I would, I would say that my agenda has always been to improve public education. I think largely teacher unions don’t agree that having charter schools as a part of that, you know, should be a part of the fabric of public education.

[00:04:48] So that’s where we disagree. So he, I happened to read these two articles and I thought it was. They were interesting. Number one, I did not realize the history of like what their publication used to be and how it provided more. Cutting edge information, you know, tools for teachers, it makes sense. But I think when most of us think of teachers unions now you think of them as a political organization.

[00:05:14] Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So it was not a surprise to know that that’s what the President’s monthly column is about politics. Mm-hmm. And I think understandably so. There should be some of that. But you know, it did raise a good question for me, which is when we think about the challenges that we’re facing in public education, I.

[00:05:33] The challenges that we’re facing in terms of what are the best practices? I think generally we know them, but as we innovate, you know, we do research and development, we get better teachers, unions should. Lead in that effort. Mm-hmm. And I’m not sure when we think of those who are thought leaders, when we’re thinking of who’s providing the most cutting edge research, I don’t think teachers unions would be on the top of that list.

[00:06:00] And so to know that that history was there at one time, I think begs the question that maybe this is something they should revisit. Like who else should, who better to leave? Right. And providing best practices to teachers in this particular way. You know, in her article, she, Randi Weingarten talks about how they have all of these training programs and webinars and other things in this particular format.

[00:06:25] I think it would make sense for them to lead in that way. And so I, I thought it was a both for very interesting articles, and I think that the insight is important to point out and ask the question like. What’s their role right now?

[00:06:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:38] Alisha Searcy: And at the same time, I think we can balance it and say, if you’ve got millions of members across the country, I think some could agree, and I don’t hope this doesn’t sound too political, that public education in many ways is under attack.

[00:06:53] You do need to make sure people are informed and they know what’s happening and that they have the tools that they need to be successful. Yeah. Politically and professionally.

[00:07:01] Albert Cheng: Yeah. Well, yeah, no, I think those are some key points to think through in this exchange, so yeah, appreciate your reaction to that. But hey, you, you have another story about charter schools?

[00:07:12] Alisha Searcy: I do, and I have to tell you, Dr. Cheng, I was very surprised when I read about Minnesota’s war on charter schools. Mm-hmm. I’m a Democrat, as everyone knows, and certainly supported the Democratic ticket in this last presidential election, so I was quite shocked when I read that Tim Walz, who is the governor of Minnesota, is anti-charter. And so anti-charter that he is continuing to essentially advocate for charter schools to get 30% less funding, which is currently the case. So he doesn’t want to change that, but he wants to reduce the funding even more with some budget cuts that would strip charters of critical funding for facilities and special education.

[00:08:00] Even as a state is already withholding millions of dollars in federal grant money that was awarded to these schools years ago, one of the other things that he wants to put in place. Is quitting, like a person whose job it is to investigate charter schools.

[00:08:17] Albert Cheng: Ah. Ah-huh.

[00:08:18] Alisha Searcy: Which sounds like more bureaucracy and craziness, but get this, there was an investigation of the Department of Education itself. Minnesota, and I think the number was like 70 people were found to be involved in a fraud.

[00:08:34] Albert Cheng: Oh boy. Okay.

[00:08:36] Alisha Searcy: And so this is insane. And so the article is pointing out that there was a letter from the office of the Dalai Lama getting involved in this, who issued a letter to the legislature because there’s a Tibetan charter school there.

[00:08:49] Ah-huh. And so how fascinating to have an unlikely ally I would say. To get involved in this debate and this argument, but I have to say I am super disappointed as we know. I think Minnesota, if not the first, is one of the first states. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. We have charter schools and so I’m disappointed to see a Democratic governor.

[00:09:11] I. Working feverishly to try to gut charter schools funding, funding for facilities and really starve them of the resources that they need to be successful. And it’s just heartbreaking, frankly, when you see a school like the one that the office of the Dalai Lama is advocating for that preserve some of the Tibetan language and culture and has a particular curriculum that teaches about ethics.

[00:09:36] And so, you know, when you think about why we need charter schools. Some parents choose them because their school that they’re zoned for is not performing well. And that’s okay. But some parents also choose charter schools because they want something different and innovative.

[00:09:52] Albert Cheng: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:52] Alisha Searcy: And so to have a Democrat leading the effort to gut charter schools in Minnesota is just very, very disappointing and disheartening.

[00:10:01] And I just think that at some point you would, you would think 30 years after charter schools have been around. Why are we still having this argument on as to whether or not they’re public schools? Whether or not they should be a part of the fabric of public education is just insane to me, and my heart aches for those parents and kids who are probably worried that their schools could be closed because they won’t have the resources they need to be successful.

[00:10:26] Albert Cheng: Well, yeah, and thanks for that reminder too, that Minnesota was the first, I mean, they were, they were the ones that got there first. And so, you know, it’s kinda ing, I was just kind of thinking about both of our articles, just the importance of thinking through history and, and what has been and mm-hmm. You know, Minnesota being the first charter.

[00:10:41] The FT Journal, Al Shanker, really trying to focus on professional development of teachers and excellence in teaching. And my immediate reaction is, wow, I, I guess history can teach us what was possible before, right? And what could still be possible.

[00:10:54] Alisha Searcy: So yeah, we have to abandon everything because it’s in the past some things

[00:10:58] Albert Cheng: That’s right.

[00:10:58] Alisha Searcy: Somethings are good and should be preserved.

[00:11:00] Albert Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. Well, well said. And hey, speaking of educational opportunity, we’ve got a real special guest this week. Dr. Sheila Harrity, who is the extended campus program coordinator for the Massachusetts Association of Vocational Administrators. So I know we’ve talked about the voc-tech schools in Massachusetts quite a bit on the show, but speaking of educational opportunity and choice, we’re gonna have her on the flip side of the break.

[00:11:39] Dr. Sheila Harrity is extended campus program coordinator for the Massachusetts Association of Vocational Administrators from 2014 to 2022. She was superintendent of the Massachusetts Regional Vocational Technical School District, and from 2015 to 2022, served as Vice Chair of the Massachusetts Board of Higher Education.

[00:11:59] In 2006, Dr. Harrity became principal of the new Worcester Technical High School, a $90 million building that included a bank, a spa, a bakery, veterinary clinic, restaurant, graphic shop, and automotive garage. Worcester Tech was named a Blue Ribbon School by the US Department of Education, establishing it as one of the 286 best public and private schools in the country, and she was named 2013 Massachusetts Principal of the Year in 2014.

[00:12:33] Dr. Harrity was named National High School Principal of the Year and honored at a White House reception. President Barack Obama, US Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, and former US Secretary of State General Colin Powell, were all featured graduation speakers at Worcester Tech. I. In 1997, she was named Worcester Public School’s teacher of the year and taught mathematics, career exploration and basketball.

[00:12:58] Sheila earned an undergraduate degree from Providence College in social work while playing college basketball, and during her junior year, the team finished first in the Big East and qualified for the NCAA tournament. She earned two master’s degrees in education from Worcester State University and received a doctorate in educational leadership from Northeastern University.

[00:13:18] Dr. Harrity, welcome to the show. It’s a real treat to have someone like you join us. Oh, I’m honored to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Well, I just have to maybe go on an aside before we get into education. You, uh, played NCAA basketball. Tell us about that.

[00:13:37] Sheila Harrity: So I would, I always refer to the days at Providence College as back in the day it was wonderful playing for the Lady Friars.

[00:13:45] I actually played and was a Tricap big claim to fame, was my classmate for four years and my teammate and one of my best friends. Doris Burke went on and stayed in the basketball world and is truly a pioneer in her field for sure. Yeah, I’m so proud of her and all of her accomplishments, but definitely got my roots at Providence College, really wanting to get back to the community and make a difference hopefully, and impact people’s lives for the better and try to. Really embrace and wrap around what I thought would be a career in service to others, and it really came from fruition of through Providence College and my education there.

[00:14:31] Albert Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s get into, and, and so for the listeners who, who don’t know who Doris Burke is, just watch some NBA playoffs that are going on right now. Um, but we’ll set that aside for now. But, but let’s talk more of your background, you know, your formative educational experiences. How did all of that history for you shape your overall views on, on education and educational leadership?

[00:14:54] Sheila Harrity: Hmm, that’s a great question. I didn’t have a direct route into vocational education.

[00:15:00] When I was at Providence College. I actually was studying to be a social worker, and my senior year I was a probation officer for the City of Providence and why I was working downtown. I realized as I had my caseload of, of students that I wanted to get ahead of the problem, and I realized very quickly that I wanted to get into education.

[00:15:25] Knowing that education helps people transform their lives and improve their quality of living for themselves and their families. Hmm. So when I graduated from Providence, I actually came back to Worcester where I was. Born and raised proud product of Worcester Public Schools, and I went to Worcester State and was getting my master’s in early childhood.

[00:15:48] And I started off as an elementary school teacher, and Worcester, actually, the public schools at that time had a bid list and you can get bumped from your positions, you know, for someone who has a more senior experience. And then I was asked to be a severe special needs teacher, so I actually was getting my master’s at Assumption College in special needs, and it was.

[00:16:12] A wonderful base for education, and I think I probably would’ve potentially stayed in that area until I got a phone call. At the time, I was coaching, teaching, of course, but also coaching after school. I had my alma mater, darty Memorial High School in Worcester. I was the field hockey and softball coach, and I was the assistant basketball coach at Holy Cross College, and I got a phone call from Jerry Kremer.

[00:16:40] At the time, Worcester Public Schools had over a 15% dropout rate, and Jerry Kremer was asked by the superintendent to open up a high school dropout program and target the students that had left and invite them back to school. I said, Jerry, why are you calling me? And at the time, Jerry saw something in me that I didn’t know.

[00:17:03] Yet of myself. And he said, I see the way you coach and you interact with your high school students. I think you’d be perfect fit for our program. Hmm. So I was actually the career, you know, I took a leap of faith with Jerry and I became the career teacher, the math teacher, and thank goodness the phys ed teacher.

[00:17:22] Mm-hmm. I could play basketball with the kids. Yeah, yeah. And you get some immediate street cred with that and ended up just loving working with our. Our students, we invited ’em back to school and the program was so successful. That we lowered the high school dropout rate in the city of Worcester down to 5% in five short years.

[00:17:44] During that time, I was also asked to run our summer program for our high school city students, and we went up to 2100 summer jobs that we found for students and connected it actually with teachers and ran an MCAS prep. Program all out at the different job sites. And that I didn’t realize at the time, was really putting me on the path of vocational technical education.

[00:18:11] Albert Cheng: Mm mm mm

[00:18:12] Sheila Harrity: And what ended up happening had a short stint at Chu Regional High School as the assistant principal and a principal, but I knew I wanted to come back to the city of which I loved working in urban education. And I got the phone call. Worcester had just built a $90 million facility. Worcester Tech at the time was literally on probation with NE a C for antiquated facility and poor performance.

[00:18:42] The business leaders, the political leaders, educational leaders, all rallied around the importance and the need for a fantastic vocational school and program for our city for the workforce development. And I was asked to come back to our, our city and open up the brand new facility. Mm-hmm. And it was incredible.

[00:19:06] What an opportunity, some people might say that, you know, are you crazy because you know, you had a big spotlight on you. ’cause the expectations were very real and things were not going to be status quo. Mm-hmm. They were expecting significant changes. And believe it or not, I was the first woman and the first non-vocational.

[00:19:27] Instructor slash administrator ever to enter its a hundred year system without being in the field previously.

[00:19:35] Albert Cheng: Wow. I wanna get back to something you mentioned in your response there. I mean, you, you were talking about how this new high school kind of came about in the midst of Massachusetts education reform efforts, you know, so, right.

[00:19:48] The 1993 Massachusetts Education Reform Act. Right. Those accountability measures, I mean, could you talk a bit more about how the voc tech schools in Massachusetts used the policies and tools of ever formm to benefit their students?

[00:20:02] Sheila Harrity: I absolutely can because Ed Reform came around originally, the vocational schools across Massachusetts.

[00:20:11] The administrators were pushing back really hard at the state saying, please, not us. We’re a vocational system. We’re here for vocational training. Our forte, you know. I guess they would say is not the academics. It is for workforce development. And once the state had said, oh no, every single student across the commonwealth will be expected to pass the MCAS through the ed reform, that’s when the vocational schools really had to assess.

[00:20:43] What they were doing and what they needed to do to make changes for their students to be successful. And so when I came into Worcester Tech, at the time, it was the lowest performing high school in our city of seven high schools and one of the poorest performing vocational schools in our state. And as I mentioned, there was definitely a push both from our own community, but also from the state level, as you mentioned, with ed reform.

[00:21:11] To really transform this school, and it rightly so, it should be for our students. So what we ended up doing, even though there was not like a separate pot of money for transformation, the first thing we did at Worcester Tech was actually double the number of honors courses offered for our students.

[00:21:29] Because students, if they’re not exposed and actually immersed in their education and the rigors of their education. How could you expect any different outcome, and it didn’t cost us any additional dollars. Instead of having a lower level course, we actually had literally doubled the number of honors courses being offered, and then we didn’t wanna set the students up for failure.

[00:21:56] What we ended up doing is incorporating avid, which stands for Advancement Via Individual Determination, and the AVID program is a national program that helps urban system students really get to the next level. And the course actually, you have tutors. In the course helping the students with their individual strengths and weaknesses to support them in their reach, meaning their arms, courses that they’re taking.

[00:22:24] So it wasn’t like we just threw ’em in the deep end. We actually had them in the shallow end with supports, knowing that they were going to do well, and sure enough, they absolutely did well.

[00:22:36] Albert Cheng: I’d like to hear a little bit more about this integration between, you know, vocational education and academics. It sounds like you’ve really led in this area with the, at least certainly Massachusetts, with the kind of voc-tech schools that they have.

[00:22:48] Talk about how you integrate that and has this penetrated nationally, have Massachusetts voc-tech schools become this national model that we could look to?

[00:22:58] Sheila Harrity: I definitely believe that the Massachusetts vocational model is our national model, and I think we’re living proof of that. I think back in the day, I love that expression.

[00:23:08] They used to be the three Rs, reading, writing, and arithmetic, but now I believe that in vocational education we have the four Rs. The first are is really about the rigors, which I just talked about. The second R is about relevancy, and I feel like in a vocational setting, vocational technical setting, you have students that not only are they getting their academics, but in the opposite week, which I’ll explain in a minute, they’re able to apply what they’re learning actually in their technical week, for instance.

[00:23:44] So say like at, let’s use Worcester Tech as an example. There’s over 1400 students. 700 would be in their academics Monday through Friday, and the other half of the 700 students would be in their technical program for Monday through Friday from the second they get off the bus until the last bell at the end of the day.

[00:24:06] So they’re in their technical program all day, which really provides an incredible. Opportunity for the students to understand what they’re studying in their technical program, but also helps bring that relevancy alive, where if you walk through any vocational school in Massachusetts, we have restaurants.

[00:24:28] We have banks, we have early childhood centers, we have veterinary clinics. We have just so many auto departments and auto collision. So if you were to walk in and the students are fully engaged, if I was studying to be an early childhood. Instructor. I’m actually working in an early childhood center with real toddlers in the school Monday through Friday.

[00:24:55] If I’m in automotive, for instance, at Worcester Tech, we had a 16 bay garage where they worked on 300 I. Private sector people that brought their vehicles in to be serviced monthly, there would be over 300 appointments that they’re working on. If you were in culinary or hospitality, you’re running a restaurant that’s open to the public.

[00:25:18] If I was in banking and finance. Again, at Worcester Tech, Worcester Credit Union had a full service branch at our school and our students were becoming bank tellers and had more experience working in the bank field during that time. So the list, I could go on and on. In the, in the veterinary science that’s very popular right now, we actually have a partnership at Tech with Tufts University.

[00:25:43] Their doctors, their veterinary doctors are helping us run a clinic, and our students are working alongside to them, and they work on real life animals. Over 500 animals are seen and taken care of through that clinic on a monthly basis. So that relevancy is so important and really is one of the key ingredients. And as Ted Coughlin, the chair of our general advisory. We always call ’em our godfather.

[00:26:12] Albert Cheng: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:12] Sheila Harrity: Of our, our school would say that is truly the vocational secret sauce. That is one of the special ingredients that makes Massachusetts vocational technical education so special.

[00:26:24] Albert Cheng: Well, that’s, thanks for sharing that. I mean, that’s fascinating and I think it’s excellent for listeners to just hear what’s possible in education here, so thanks for sharing that. I mean, just to turn maybe to a more specific topic. You mentioned earlier you, you wanted to serve in an urban setting, and certainly listeners aren’t familiar. A lot of these urban vo tech schools throughout Massachusetts do serve higher percentages of poor, minority and special needs students. How have you at Worcester Tech. You know, handled that challenge and, and really brought these kind of at-risk student populations to realize the success that you have.

[00:26:58] Sheila Harrity: Yeah, I know you can’t see me now, but I have a big smile on my face. Very passionate about this. And this really goes to the third R when I was referring to the four Rs.

[00:27:09] Rigor, relevancy. Well, here’s the third R relationships. Hmm. And when you’re in a vocational technical school and you’re in your technical program all day, Monday through Friday during the entire day, students, not if, but when they go into crisis. A teacher is going to be there and be able to help them, support them and assist them instead.

[00:27:35] You know, and I don’t even mean to knock on a comprehensive school system, but if you’re in a traditional setting, approximately every 50 minutes a student is passing, they went from their English, the bell rings, 50 minutes later they’re going to their math and so forth. And they don’t have that specialized attention.

[00:27:55] Hmm. And. You know, when you’re in a technical program, our instructors get to know the students so well and the relationships that are formed in that bond that helps them, where the students can trust them, and then they truly embrace what’s being taught and really excel in vocational technical education.

[00:28:17] And I think Worcester Tech is a model for that. We had the lowest dropout rate in the, the city we had. It was less than 1% of our students. They weren’t dropping out because they loved what they were learning. They felt very engaged. They were earning individual credentials that were industry recognized opportunities for them to be able to.

[00:28:41] Have an internship, a co-op and summer employment, and if all went well, also a job upon graduation from high school. Mm-hmm. So it was definitely a great, and is a great learning model for urban education.

[00:28:56] Albert Cheng: Well, I mean, let’s talk about dropout rates a bit. I mean, you know, as, as you’re saying that I’m, I’m reminded of just the broader research on vocational education and, and it’s not just Massachusetts voc tech.

[00:29:06] I mean, I think this kind of research has been done in other settings where we do find dropout rates. Decreasing and kind of being in the researcher world. People have various hypotheses for that, but I wanna hear it from you. I mean, you’re, you’re there, you know, you’ve seen, you know, what you guys have done, and I mean, you’ve talked about relationships. What else has Worcester Tech done really addressed? Dropout?

[00:29:28] Sheila Harrity: Well, you’re probably gonna laugh, but I’m not exaggerating. We threw out the dropout form. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. We didn’t make it accessible. When a student was struggling and went to see their guidance counselor and was threatening to drop outta school, a form was not available for a student just to fill out and then pass in their books.

[00:29:53] Instead, it was. Let’s get to the root of what your temporary issue is. What is this temporary problem and how can we help you? Hmm. Because if we can help you with this temporary situation and then get you back in the fold of your education and your training, ’cause you’re on the right path, we don’t want a small temporary issue, literally potentially changing the course of your life.

[00:30:20] ’cause when you drop out. You know, we all have seen the stats of a student that drops out in what’s in store for them, and being able to redirect students, give them additional helps and support to have them ensure that they’ll become successful was really and is very. Important to lower the dropout rate and to just make sure that students are taken care of.

[00:30:46] And I learned that when I first started in working at the High School Dropout Program. It’s not what students want in most cases. They just don’t feel like they think that’s. Their only option. Mm-hmm. And it’s not. And when you create this environment that you care for students and you want the best for them, then you know, this is a wonderful model, again, to keep students engaged.

[00:31:11] Way too often students will ask questions like, why do I have to learn this? Hmm. But in a vocational setting. They know why they’re learning the various things they’re learning in English and math and sciences because they’re applying them the following week in their technical program. The light goes on, you know, in the vocational technical setting in the four years that they’re there at the high school. It’s so wonderful to witness the student’s maturity and seeing them becoming lifelong learners and independent learners and advocates for themselves, and it’s really exciting.

[00:31:47] Alisha Searcy: Well, I’m blown away by the work that you have done and the work that others have done and the impact that you’ve made on students. You talked about partnerships with Tufts as an example. So under your leadership at Worcester Tech, you became a national leader in urban vocational tech reform. So can you talk more about the relationship between the political and business communities organized labor and higher education in supporting your vo-tech school reforms?

[00:32:16] Sheila Harrity: I certainly can. The beautiful thing, another special sauce I would say that makes Massachusetts vocational technical school so special is their general advisory and their program advisory members. Every single vocational school invites business leaders. Higher ed representatives, parents and students, and in some cases even political leaders, to their at least twice a year, if not quarterly.

[00:32:47] At Worcester Tech and at Monte Tech where I was the superintendent, we had over 300 business leaders. Part of our program advisory, and what we ask of these program advisory leaders is to please look at our curriculum, make sure that we are teaching the most updated information for our students so that when they’re graduating, they will be career ready.

[00:33:13] Mm-hmm. In addition, we ask our program advisory members to also look at. What industry recognized credentials that we’re offering our students in each of our chapter 74 programs, and let us know if there’s any additional credentials that our students should be earning to help in that workforce development.

[00:33:36] Or are there ones that are antiquated that are not useful anymore, and that really helps us as well. In addition, these program advisory members, actually, they might think is, you know, as they’re updating their manufacturing floor or updating their equipment or technology. It’s a wonderful relationship where now one of your program advisory members is willing to give the school a donation for significant equipment and technology and tools and potential grant dollars for various programs.

[00:34:13] In addition to that, there’s other things that our program advisories can do. They actually come in and they’re our career speakers as well as they’ll offer internships. And what’s really important is co-op placements. Cooperative education is where our juniors and seniors during their technical week can actually go out and work in business and industry, and instead of being at school, they’re working full-time on their vocational week, getting paid, building their resume.

[00:34:45] Building their skillset to hopefully upon graduation, land them a full-time position at their co-op placement, which is helping that workforce pipeline that is so essential for communities and it’s so vital for vocational education. So those are just some phenomenal things that I believe are so important and are unique that can help our students across the commonwealth.

[00:35:13] Alisha Searcy: Yes, and really informs the environment that everybody’s working. That’s how public education is supposed to work, right?

[00:35:20] Sheila Harrity: Mm. It sure is. And you know, it breaks down those silos. Yes. And a lot of times people say, oh, in K through 12 we do our certain thing. And then higher ed, they have their silo, and then business and workforce have theirs.

[00:35:35] And the beautiful thing about vocational technical education is with program advisory members. We bring them to the table. We want to know exactly what their expectations are within their industry, and what can we do to ensure upon graduation that our students are college and career ready.

[00:35:56] Alisha Searcy: Excellent.

[00:35:58] So I wanna ask you a question about, you’ve had some very influential visitors mm-hmm. To Worcester Tech, including the United States Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who happens to be one of my favorite people, president Obama and the Late Secretary General Colin Powell. Yes. Talk about how these leading national figures were drawn. To the urban vocational tech successes and what it was like being honored at the White House.

[00:36:31] Sheila Harrity: Yeah, be still my heart. It still feels like yesterday, I believe that we received the recognition at Worcester Tech, obviously. Because of our student success and the transformation. And it doesn’t happen with one person, it happens as a team.

[00:36:54] And you know, we just talked about how important our business and higher ed leaders are to a school and its success, our political leaders. Bound together and we’re able to secure dollars to build our brand new $90 million facility and also have important policies in place for funding streams that are essential for the success of vocational education.

[00:37:20] Our higher ed partners are essential so that we wanna make sure, for instance, if an student in Allied Health. Would like, you know, they’re getting industry recognized credentials as a CNA home health aide. They have CPR and First Aid and EMT certification, but if they wanna go on to college, they can. And our higher ed partners are helping support the students to make sure that as they review our education and our programs.

[00:37:49] They’re ensuring that our students will be successful in that transition. And I think because of that and because of the student success in the way the community rallied around Worcester Technical High School that I believe, and obviously I couldn’t leave out the teachers because they’re the ones in the classroom day in and day out, working with our students and really sharing their knowledge and their skillset.

[00:38:14] To bring the students to the next level to be that next generation of workforce. That combination literally got us national attention. Mm-hmm. And when Secretary Arne Duncan came to our school, he did it in a town hall fashion. I. Where he had all different representatives of our school speak about our success so that it would become national news, and that he wanted to showcase our school as a national model that should be replicated across our United States.

[00:38:48] And then when we ever heard that President Obama wanted to be our commencement speaker, he literally selected one high school. Every year to deliver a commencement speech. But not only did he do that, he actually stayed and handed out the diplomas to each and every one of the students and congratulated, um, them personally, which is something that they’ll remember for the rest of their lives.

[00:39:16] Yes, and I too believe that President Obama came to celebrate the success of our school, our students, their families, our business and political leaders, and using us again, as an example to the United States of what is possible, especially in urban education. That is incredible. Wow. Yeah. It really is. It’s memories that will be with me for the rest of my life.

[00:39:42] Alisha Searcy: Yes, for sure. Wow. So for a decade now in Massachusetts, there’s been lots of contentious policy debates about the vocational texts, modest admission requirements, which have been a central part of the. Model for a century. Mm-hmm. Um, as well as district middle schools not allowing vocational techs full access to recruit prospective students among seventh and eighth graders.

[00:40:08] Which again, with all that you’ve talked about, it just seems a little bit crazy. Can you talk about these debates and how the vocational technical community has navigated these thorny policy issues?

[00:40:21] Sheila Harrity: Yeah, it has been a challenge for sure, just knowing that this is such a successful model and we want to make sure that students are exposed to the opportunities evoke what a vocational education means and could potentially have on students across our Commonwealth.

[00:40:42] And when you don’t have access to students in middle school, it can be challenging because if the student doesn’t know about it. And or the parent has a misconception about what vocational technical education is, then it’s a missed opportunity for a segment of students that might potentially not apply to the school.

[00:41:03] And I know that we currently have a. Probably a wait list now of about six to 11,000 students in our school systems looking to get into vocational education. And it’s just so important that we continue to increase the access. And I know you know, at Worcester Tech there at. They’ve added additional 400 students to their school.

[00:41:32] I know at Monte Tech we were at its max. In addition, what we ended up doing is putting together what they call an after dark program where if high school students hadn’t gotten in to the school. For the high school component. We ran in after high school time where they could specialize in a technical area and get some exposure.

[00:41:55] But in addition, another thing that vocational technical schools are great at doing too is opening the doors in the evening. At Monte Tech, we had 1700 adults in training and retraining programs for North Central Massachusetts that were essential to the area. You know, for vocational school. Again, the Commonwealth and the governor have really given vocational education, education, enormous financial support to buy that essential equipment and technology that’s needed for this workforce training.

[00:42:31] And it’s essential, and that’s why so many vocational schools are open till 10 o’clock at night, assisting and supporting our adult populations as well. Wow. Such an incredible need. It is. So when you’re talking seventh and eighth grade, it’s so important that they actually get exposed to it. But in addition, if there are some communities that are full, there’s still ways in which vocational technical education that different school districts are trying to manage that and address that by expansion in other ways.

[00:43:04] Alisha Searcy: Wow. Outstanding. So my final question, if you were a state education commissioner, and I think you should be for the record, and were asked to enact three policies and I would add to that, or practices to strengthen urban vocational technical schools in Massachusetts and across the country, what would those policies or practices be?

[00:43:27] I mean, clearly you’ve learned a lot over the years. You’ve. Had tremendous success. What do folks need to know to bring these types of schools and practices and partnerships to their respective states?

[00:43:40] Sheila Harrity: That’s a great question because we see the success. We know it is a quality education and how can we expand it so that the impact can even be larger.

[00:43:52] And again, it is such a smart model. So I guess the three areas of practice that I think should be replicated would certainly be the, one of the vocational schedules is really important. The every other week. So one week they’re in their, their academics Monday through Friday earning their high school diploma, but at the same time, the opposite week, they are in their technical program so that their education, they really have that hands-on experience and time to work and really get engaged instead of, okay.

[00:44:30] And after the second period, you know, we have to leave, we gotta. And our projects and what have you, or students in some cases even get bused to a different location. I think it’s important that everybody’s housed in the same school district. The second thing I would say is essential is program and general advisory.

[00:44:51] And you know, I did spend a a lot of time talking about how important it was and our chair, Ted Coughlin. He was our chair for 50 years and he was a highly respected business leader, successful business leader in Coughlin Electric, and he really helped us open doors and brought in so many different business leaders to help support all of our Chapter 74 programs that I can’t say enough about how important and essential and active and the strong program advisory is.

[00:45:28] And then if people don’t have a Chapter 74 program, obviously a funding stream is essential to start programs. Start up with chapter $74. Equipment is so important and our federal Perkins dollars are so needed for the. Professional development for our instructors so that they can stay current in their fields.

[00:45:53] The amount of professional development and equipment that’s needed to start these programs and sustain these programs, the Perkins dollars are a huge value to us.

[00:46:05] Alisha Searcy: Perfect. Thank you so much. That’s so helpful. We could go on for a much longer time. That was my last question. Just thank you so much for again, all that you’ve done and the impact that you’ve made on the lives of young people, and I would argue in families and communities. This has been great. We’ve learned so much from you today.

[00:46:24] Sheila Harrity: Oh, it was my pleasure speaking with you, and I’m always honored to be able to share our story and be an advocate for vocational technical education, as you can hear in my voice, it’s so exciting. Yes. And because I’ve seen what it, it can do firsthand with students, and it’s just remarkable.

[00:46:45] Alisha Searcy: Agree. Well, you’ve made me excited and I hope you’ve made our listeners excited as well. Thank you.

[00:46:52] Albert Cheng: Well, Alicia, I, I always enjoy listening to folks that are just, you know, in the trenches as we always like to say, you know, just, yes, practitioners doing this work. I know for folks like me who are kind of stuck in policy and I guess the ivory tower, I dunno if that’s pejorative these days, but, you know, kind of forget, um, about the real work that’s being done.

[00:47:11] So I definitely appreciate, yes, I learned a lot. So good. Yeah. Before we close out, I do also wanna leave the tweet of the week, which this week comes from Education Week. The Tweet goes, districts use Medicaid to cover the costs of special education and student services. Some superintendents are concerned over the impacts that may come with cuts to the program and okay.

[00:47:36] Like I actually was unaware that states were using Medicaid to cover some of that. So that was kind of a fascinating revelation for me. I mean, maybe I should have known that. But anyway, I wanna flag that tweet. Was that something you knew, Alicia?

[00:47:50] Alisha Searcy: Well, I just learned that maybe this year looking at all of the cuts that are coming from the federal government and realizing, of course, I knew that Medicaid was used in schools. I did not make the connection with special education.

[00:48:03] Albert Cheng: It’s a new understanding for me as well. I. Yeah, I mean we’ve had some school finance discussions on this show and, and they’re always really complicated ’cause those budgets are tough to make sense of sometimes, but

[00:48:14] Alisha Searcy: They are, and it helps you to realize just how much schools depend on these federal and state resources.

[00:48:21] Yeah, yeah.

[00:48:22] Albert Cheng: Well, we got another excellent guest next week. Jane Leavy, who’s the New York Times bestselling American sports writer, biographer, and author of Wait for it. We are gonna talk about. Babe Ruth. So you know, if I could use the sand lock quote, you know, the great bambino right, that scene I think many of us will know.

[00:48:43] So really excited for that show coming up next week. Well, hey Alisha, great to be back and co-hosting the show with you. Really enjoyed hanging out together on, on this one as always. Alright to the rest of you, I hope you tune in next week, babe Ruth, don’t forget. See you later. See you. Hey, it’s Albert Cheng here, and I just wanna thank you for listening to the Learning Curve podcast.

[00:49:07] If you’d like to support the podcast further, we’d invite you to donate to the Pioneer institute at pioneerinstitute.org/donations.