Blackstone Valley’s Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick on MA’s Nation-Leading Voc-Techs

The Learning Curve Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick

[00:00:00] Albert Cheng: Well, hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Learning Curve podcast. I’m one of your co-hosts this week, Albert Cheng, and with me is Walter Blanks. Walter, my friend, nice to have you on the show.

[00:00:37] Walter Blanks: It’s always good to talk with you Albert, so thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:41] Albert Cheng: It’s treat to connect on this podcast.

[00:00:44] We got an exciting show. We’re gonna have Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick. He’s gonna come and talk to us about vocational education in Massachusetts. But before we get to even that break and that interview, we got some news to talk about. Walter. Lots of stuff is going on. So what did you see?

[00:01:01] Walter Blanks: Yeah, my article comes from the Hill discussing New York mayoral primary, uh, Ani, talking about his education agenda, ah, and how it would set up New York City for failure.

[00:01:15] And Ani has actually come out, you know, like most Democrats, especially in New York, opposing any form of school choice or education freedom for, for families. But in New York. Particularly, he’s really coming out against charter schools. Which charter schools, I mean, probably one of the most criticized charter school programs is in New York.

[00:01:36] But it’s also been extremely successful. Yeah. Especially for minority students. And so he really wants to roll that back and essentially cut off opportunities for many minority families. Success Academy has done incredible work, which their schools have a population that is roughly, you know, 98% made up of, of minority students, and.

[00:01:55] Vast majority of them are coming from lower income households. And so it’s kind of this idea that, especially in the democratic circles, that you know, the public education system is fine and we need as many students there as possible. Which is just simply not the case. And when parents are, are driving those, those decisions for their children with access and opportunity, we see that those children far way better than, than being stuck in a school based off of their zip code.

[00:02:20] And so families are opting out of things that just aren’t working for them. Period. Point blank and mad. Donny doesn’t know the. What’s going on within every family and what every student needs. And so coming out against charter schools and being against every form of school choice is just not the way to go in New York City, especially when we’re seeing massive school choice support and programs being passed across the country.

[00:02:43] And so hopefully there are some strong school choice advocates in the state who can stand up to that and really do the hard work so that families can continue to enjoy the freedom in, in choosing the best school for their children.

[00:02:55] Albert Cheng: Yeah, well, well said Walter. And, and yeah, I mean we’ve talked a lot on this show about, I think a few months ago, maybe a story about success academies about how their choir practices were happening in the stairwell ’cause they couldn’t get buildings.

[00:03:08] Yeah, yeah. You know, and so this, this controversy about getting space and money for capital, you know, we’ve talked about at length. I mean, look, our friend Ian Rose has been on the show. I mean, he runs. Vertex Acade is another charter school out there in New York City. So yeah, there’s lots of good work being done and, and I hope none of that gets undone.

[00:03:25] And look, I mean, these charter schools already face an uphill battle to expand, right? So, well, anyway, I hope for greener pastures for these, these schools. Hey, you know, speaking of choice being passed in a bunch of states, school choice policies, I guess we ought to talk a little bit about the federal bill that just got passed recently.

[00:03:44] And, you know, it’s been kind of the talk of, I guess, the country, you know, with the tax credit scholarship program that that was in various versions of the bill a flag, an article from the 74. That kind of gives a rundown of, of what happens. And so, you know, I, I don’t know what you think, but certainly that provision in there has been paired down as the Senate and the House kind of reconciled the different versions.

[00:04:05] And so I think, you know, things like it’s a cap of $1,700 that are eligible for federal deduction. I think there was talk about, uh, of. A previous version of the bill where there was no cap. So a lot of these details have, I guess they’ve, they’ve made their way through the, the legislative process. And I’ll just refer, uh, our listeners to the 74 article to kind of give the rundown.

[00:04:26] But look, I, I guess there’s a lot of other details and, you know, regulatory decisions that have to be made. And so we’ll see how this all pans out. I mean, there’s a lot that are, that’s still up in the air. No.

[00:04:37] Walter Blanks: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I’ve been spending a lot of time kind of working on this and following this, and it’s taken on different forms and looks different, has different names, you know, as it, it moved from the house and the Senate and then back to the house.

[00:04:49] But ultimately the goal is to, you know, really empower families to put their children in the best educational environments. And oftentimes I say that education gets in the way of politics. Yeah. For a lot of policy makers. And so. It’d be interesting to see kind of what comes out of this. Of course it passed, but it still has to go through rules and regulatory things and, and all of that kind of stuff.

[00:05:11] And you’re dealing with the tax code, the federal tax code. So of course it’s gonna be, you know, super complicated and super slow moving. But I’m Really excited at the prospect of, of more families having that ability, but we’ll just have to wait and see how things boil down and how families will actually be able to use these dollars.

[00:05:28] But yeah, really exciting time in the education space.

[00:05:31] Albert Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the devil will be in the details and we’ll see what those details are gonna be over the next several months, I guess, so. Well, all right. That’s it for the news this week. I mean, there’s. A ton more stuff going on. But, um, that’s all we have time for for now.

[00:05:44] On the flip Sydor the break, we have Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick who’s gonna talk to us about, Hey, another form of choice, really, Walter, you know, vocational schools, particularly in Massachusetts, so stick around.

[00:06:06] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick has been superintendent director of the Blackstone Valley Vocational Regional School District since 1994. Under his leadership, valley Tech was designated a 1999, 2007 and 2010 high schools that work Pacesetter School. A 2003 Commonwealth Compass School, a 2005 Vanguard Model School and was one of six school systems nationwide to receive the 2004 National School Change Award.

[00:06:37] The district was one of only two vocational technical districts nationwide. Named to the college board’s 2012 AP District Honor roll for expanding access to the advanced placement curriculum. Before coming to Valley Tech, Dr. Fitzpatrick was a professor of vocational technical instructional methodologies at several Massachusetts public Colleges and director of the Center for Vocational Technical Education at Fitchburg State College.

[00:07:02] He earned a doctorate of educational administration from the University of Massachusetts. Dr. Fitzpatrick, welcome to the show.

[00:07:09] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Thank you very much. It’s been an honor to contribute to quality, vocational, practical educations for decades.

[00:07:15] Albert Cheng: Yeah, let’s talk about your background. You’ve got a, a impressive and distinguished career in vocational technical education, particularly in Massachusetts and at Valley Tech.

[00:07:25] Could you just share with our listeners, you know, some of your background, how’d you get into education and into educational leadership?

[00:07:31] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: I earned my advanced degree at the University of Massachusetts or the state university at the main campus in Amherst. Previous to that, participated in a $10,000 scholarship for an experimental master’s program in educational leadership.

[00:07:46] Using those credentials, I then embarked upon a series of internships to get some field-based experiences. After teaching for two years, and those internships included a one year position by design as specialist to the superintendent of an urban high school on a K to 12 level, a one year position as a special assistant to the president of of a community college.

[00:08:12] And then the time spent with the Department of Developmentary Education in a series of career education curriculum activities. Following that, I entered into, you know, more permanent employment opportunities, a relatively. Small, regional, vocational, technical high school in the western part of our state, and then was recruited by the state universities to train teachers and administrators in education, meeting certification requirements.

[00:08:41] And then 32 years ago, I accepted an opportunity to become the superintendent. Uh. The Blackstone Valley Regional School District located in the center of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Along the way, in a form of giving back to those who gave to me, I put my hat in the ring, if you will, for various state leadership opportunities, and then in a somewhat.

[00:09:05] You know, unique experience. Colleagues from across the Commonwealth elected me as, you know, president of the, of frankly, four different organizations. And so that gave me an opportunity to kind of spread the word. I wasn’t really looking for power, but I was looking for the pulpit to encourage others to recognize the benefit of quality vocational al education, dovetailing the Pioneer Institute in, in that mission.

[00:09:34] Albert Cheng: What strikes me is, is just that you’ve been at this for, for decades, and so I wanna ask you a few questions about, you know, your observations of voc tech schools across Massachusetts, just across the years you’ve been involved. And I, and I think our listeners are gonna appreciate just the long view that you’ve had.

[00:09:49] So lemme start with this question first. I mean. Look, over the past 25 to 30 years, you know, Massachusetts, the State’s vote tech schools have been, you know, the group of pre-existing schools that used the 1993 Massachusetts Education Reform Acts, accountability measures. You know, we’re talking about MCAS and, and Standards and School Choice.

[00:10:09] I mean, these schools, I mean, they’ve used it better than any other schools in the state. So, yeah. Could you talk about how the VTECH schools use those tools of education reform to benefit your students?

[00:10:21] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: The vocational technical schools seized an opportunity to use accountability and measured accomplishments as a barometer of the impact they were making.

[00:10:31] For many years, the Vol Tech schools in Massachusetts enjoyed strong partnership relationships with the Department of Elementary Circular Education and its team members In the system that I worked with for the last three decades. We have a Systemwide collectively bargains. Performance contract, which includes, uh, finance if dropout rates.

[00:10:53] MCA school was for many years, completion rates and other evidence was in place. My school system, I, I serve for a 13 member elected school committee or, or school board. And they have always promoted collective bargaining as well as independent individual performance goals. The vocational community led the movement, if you will, on wanted to be measured and showing the public that.

[00:11:21] Provided the finances to support them in all education, that it was bringing results and they were empirical. There was no, no need to get involved in fabricating or boasting. The data spoke for itself and it was not manipulated. It was legit and externally driven. Which was a key factor. Unfortunately, many school systems were claiming successes for that outside of the vocational community.

[00:11:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:48] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Um, so it spearheaded greater confidence in the public entrusting the education of their children to the vocational technical school systems, overcoming some of the previous perspectives that vocational technical education. Would be terminal. No college opportunity. No further education, no technical training beyond that, all of which wasn’t true.

[00:12:11] And when it became evident that there was clear indication of the measured success, the public swing was, you know, boasted and gave, gave the vocational community new momentum for appealing to both industry and recruiting students.

[00:12:27] Albert Cheng: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, speaking of you, the, you know, students and just the, the success you’ve had, I mean, look, the, the data speak for them themselves, but you know, one of the markers of the culture at these voc tech schools is that, you know, you guys really do a good job of alternating and then integrating instructional time between occupational education and academic preparation.

[00:12:50] What does that model look like? How did you all pull that off?

[00:12:54] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: There’s been significant changes in that model, and thank you for, for inviting me to comment on it. Some of the vocational charter school schools, again, like the one that I recently retired from, used to have a alternating schedule of like three weeks of academics and three weeks of shop or vocational studies.

[00:13:13] Then they discovered that there was too much time, especially with holidays, uh, away from one or the other. So they changed it to. Two weeks alternating. Once again, they discovered that that was not the most efficient way to provide education, and most of the regional vocational schools in the Commonwealth, Massachusetts now offer their instruction on an alternating week basis.

[00:13:36] But they didn’t stop there with the changes. It didn’t make sense, you know, to focus on academic precision and yet abandon that. Kind of like the no homework syndrome of the vocational week. And so Massachusetts, and there were a series of studies that have been done, and I’ve written position papers on this as well, fostered an integrated approach for curriculum.

[00:14:00] Just a couple of examples. Let’s say that you’re in culinary arts and you happen to be in your English class. In the second week of that alternate week schedule, you might be invited to do your compositions. Demonstrating punctuation and syntax and spelling and everything else, but to respond to a complaint from a customer of the restaurant, oh yeah, you, you could take a construction technology.

[00:14:25] You might take math problems and geometry and cross-reference them to the architectural and construction factors that you would find again in the second week. So there was a crossover emphasizing and encouraging and reinforcing the academic concepts along with the motivational. Schemes that motivated students.

[00:14:47] Some call it a secret talk, but it’s a highly motivating approach that has encouraged students to recognize that on whatever week they find themselves, they can gain on both fronts.

[00:14:59] Albert Cheng: I mean, wow. That’s, I mean, thanks for sharing that. I just appreciate hearing these ways of how the, the curriculum is integrated.

[00:15:05] You know, we, we tend to silo a lot of the different content areas these days, but it’s fascinating to hear. What would you guys have been able to do? One more question from me and I’ll turn it over to, to Walter. I mean, I wanna talk about, you were mentioning data and dropout rates, and it’s one of the, um, kind of empirical facts out there that dropout rates in Massachusetts VO tech schools have been very low, much lower than average.

[00:15:28] What do you think explains that? How did you address that issue at Valley Tech and you know, how did some of the other schools deal with that?

[00:15:35] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: We encourage students to be engaged to recognize that they make a difference. They make a difference in the sense of their contribution in small teams and large, large team efforts.

[00:15:47] The integration that was referenced in the previous question and response. Has led teachers from academic, vocational, and special needs and counseling staff to work in kind of the elementary school unit approach, planning lessons that are highly motivational and appeal to students. And so each day it’s like a good lesson plan for a teacher.

[00:16:08] It’s mapped out. There’s little lost time. There’s a darn good reason to come to school next day. Don’t miss out. Don’t miss an opportunity to contribute. And in many cases, the students are involved in, I call ’em like Eagle Scout projects where they’re doing things for the community. You could have a dental assisting or health assisting students preparing presentations for elementary schools students to have them become more aware of health techniques and.

[00:16:37] Just strengthening the overall wellness of elementary students. The older students are highly motivated when they’re entrusted with the responsibility to be ambassadors of these messages, and they don’t wanna let anyone down. They’re willing to put in extra time, not just the regular school time. This all contributes and the quality of the teaching staff.

[00:16:59] The commitment of the teaching staff and the support staff that goes with it. If people are, you know, rowing in the same direction, it encourages strong attendance and employers look to see this as well. Obviously, you’re not the best employee if you don’t come to work. So this combination of motivational factors has led to, and also a safe environment that.

[00:17:22] You know, the students and their families know that coming to school each day, they’re an environment that’s safe and protected and focused on strengthening the competencies and the skill sets for their students, all as future employees, whether they go to college, following their experience with us, and then go into the workforce or go directly into the workforce.

[00:17:43] Walter Blanks: So Dr. Fitzpatrick, it’s so good to be with you and hear about all the incredible work, but more importantly, the experience that students are having under your leadership, valley Tech became a state and even national leader in vocational tech reform. Could you talk about the relationship between the political and business communities organized labor and higher education in supporting these school reforms?

[00:18:09] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Early on, certainly I recognized, and my school committee recognized that affiliation with the business community and the public at large were critical to the further investment in what we’re asking to invest here. The Pioneer Institute has done other programs that have highlighted the advisory committee, so the technical experts that contribute to each of the vocational technical programs as a requirement in Massachusetts to, uh.

[00:18:34] Coach and examine what’s happening in each of the vocational programs. These advisory committees are industry representatives who help us in so many ways. They’re legitimate consultants, if you will. They help us to gauge the current expectations of the workforce. This is a constant revival or constant renewal of what’s needed.

[00:18:57] They encourage our teachers and students never to be stale or teaching something that is. Passe, something that is no longer currently found in the industry, but they also help us withdraw placements, cooperative educational internships, sometimes donations, and certainly the political world as far as like many states.

[00:19:16] Has switched money. Much of its financing from federal and state levels to local, and so it is obviously paramount that you establish a stakeholder, if you will, in the local public and just being asked to pony up the money to run, not just vocational schools, but all education in Massachusetts. Not uncommon to have a given community paying through service of its available.

[00:19:38] Finances committed to education. And so some school systems use an occasional public relations effort episode. We use the 12 month approach. We want the public to know even during the summer month that we are making improvements. You know, their money is valued. Anyone who tours our school and we provide tours regularly, all different hours, sometimes some, an evening or weekend or during the school day if.

[00:20:04] If needed to have people see their, their return on investment, see the condition of the building, which is well cared for, oftentimes by our very students and staff, and we don’t allow things to fall into disrepair. We value what they’ve given us. We protect it, we promote it, and we improve it. So. All of this has just strengthened the confidence that the public has, and it’s been a point of jealousy outside the vocational community, which can be a new political challenge that’s rising.

[00:20:35] Its ugly, you know, ugly face, I guess you could say in some ways that when people say you were never supposed to be this good, that’s almost absurd. When have you done enough for students that you serve? And so we’re honored it that we’ve been able to set a tone, give examples. I’ve received really beautiful thank you messages from colleagues throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for helping them guide them through an issue or a problem or a political snap food that they ran into.

[00:21:03] So it’s a form of giving back.

[00:21:05] Walter Blanks: That’s super helpful. And I like that idea of, of revival and you know, a little bit of jealousy outside of the space because when you’re doing something, well, either everyone wants to be just like you, or they see you as a threat to whatever it is that they’re doing. And so at the end of the day, students are thriving, parents are happy, which is something that should be celebrated across the board now.

[00:21:26] Now with that right. Everyone wants to kind of have their piece of that kind of revival and movement. And across the state, these kind of schools have now have huge waiting lists and growing demand among students, their families, as well as with local businesses. Can you discuss how this successful model has contributed to better serving students with special needs and connecting them with careers, businesses and college ultimately?

[00:21:53] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Absolutely. We’ve taken pride in our ability to respond to the students with special needs and the challenges that these young people face. For one thing, we don’t pull them out of classes and send them someplace else, and that’s a new experience from the sending school conversations we’re having with parents as far as the scheduling that their students previously endured versus coming here.

[00:22:17] We have special education aides and assistants who are encouraged to pick up trade skills and certifications in academic areas. They go to the classroom with the students, so the student is not isolated or removed. They stay in the mainstream. As I participate in this interview, our podcast, we have 50 students of special needs that are participating in a summer camp.

[00:22:42] These are 50 students who were included in the freshman class for us for the next year. The parents agreed and we were able to offer kind of a transitional opportunity to become more familiar with our. Our setting, which can be daunting. With all the vocational technical programs, the size of the school and interacting with students from other towns, it can be obviously a bit overwhelming.

[00:23:06] And so we want these students to be successful. We take great pride in how we’ve been able to respond to these students and to watch them grow. They become Post-It Children for Overcoming Obstacles, which all students have to. Overcome. We also build upon the strengths of these students and allow them to flourish and to grow in greater confidence.

[00:23:28] The feedback from the parents and guardians that the motivator in itself, and so it’s been a pleasure to work with students of a variety of special needs. Also to work with the NGBT LGBTQ plus students and, uh, other students who may have been treated differently in their. Environments before us. We don’t want that to happen within our walls.

[00:23:49] And so we do everything we can to promote a, a receptive, welcoming, nurturing environment and to celebrate growth.

[00:23:57] Walter Blanks: That’s so, so inspiring because each child, and we know this, each child learns differently and has different needs within their education system. And so being that kind of alternative for a lot of families, I know it’s, it’s, that’s absolutely life changing and so.

[00:24:13] For a decade now in in Massachusetts, there’s been a lot of contentious policy debates about some of the modest admission requirements with these kinds of schools, which have been a central part of the model for a century now, as well as district middle schools, not allowing vol tech schools full access to recruit prospective students among seventh and eighth graders.

[00:24:33] Could you talk about these debates and how the VO-tech community has navigated some of these thorny policy issues?

[00:24:41] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Frankly, the most recent decisions in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? Well, just vocational admissions are an embarrassment. They’re being led by a political activist who might mean well, but they’re simply not familiar with what we do.

[00:24:56] Neither have they asked or come to see what we do, and that’s so unfortunate. The previous leadership on the Governor Baker. Regularly encouraged participation and input from practitioners. It seems that the, they had moved away from that, and that’s rather disappointing. Of all the things that the executive branch and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts had to fix, vocational technical education was not among them, but somehow on the political pressure.

[00:25:24] Or maybe political appeal by non-vocational educators. It became attractive to force significant changes in the admissions of vocational technical schools. I try to be fair here with my, this response. I don’t wish to be vindictive, but it I’m, I am disappointed that while we were eager to participate and contribute to the conversation, it was deemed that our viewpoint was not worthy of consideration, and so it became a political.

[00:25:52] Football, the students of, of the school system have, they’re funny. Some refer to it as like Luddites that are making the decisions and others refer to, you know, it, it is just so sad to see this development like Senator McCarthy of the fifties, where somehow a communist was on every street corner, that there are external.

[00:26:15] Players and powers that come into that interfere with what we do and don’t give us the opportunity to be true partners in the process. So that’s at the setback. Disappointing. But one thing will, that I’m confident in, and as I spoke to the back, as I, you know, more recently at the close of our school year, the rigors of what we do.

[00:26:38] The standards of our, our day-to-day operation, they will not weaken. They will not be watered down. So anyone who thinks that they’re gonna come into the vocational schools in Massachusetts and people don’t realize the difference between career education and vocational technical education, career education is something that should be for everyone.

[00:26:57] Vocational technical education is a deep dive into a particular trade pushing involving some 2000 hours of preparation at the high school level alone. But the standards will not be sacrificed. Students will, who arrive, will need to make a commitment as others who have come before them to grow, to commit, and to prepare and expand at, at their fullest.

[00:27:21] Walter Blanks: I think that’s super fair. And, and the fact of the matter is too, it’s, it’s very frustrating and it seems that some. Policy makers have the, the idea that education is getting in the way of their politics, so to speak. And I always say that when that happens, you know, there’s, it’s always children that are, are left out in the cold in any form of education reform kind of conversations, and families need.

[00:27:45] Whatever they may need. And bringing this innovation to the education space is very, very important. And so, finally, last question from me. Mm-hmm. Uh, if you were a state education commissioner or state secretary of education and were asked to enact three policies to strengthen Oak Tech schools in Massachusetts and ultimately across the country, what might those three policies be?

[00:28:08] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Well, that’s an interesting opportunity. Over the years I’ve tried hard to work with the Commissioners of Education and the Secretary of Education. Well, the first thing I would do is I would move in the philosophical approach. We need to go back. To, to greater trust with the people who provide education on a daily basis to students across the commonwealth, particularly in the vocational capital schools.

[00:28:33] Given the nature of this podcast that the viewpoint needs to be invited and respected, we need to piece the tendency to suddenly announce a new policy and feel that any advanced knowledge of the policy would sink it or would disrupt it. In my leadership style, I regularly asked my colleagues to share.

[00:28:56] We kind of gauge the, the attitudinal climate of a given change or modification. We value the opinion of those who are in the trenches, and we need to move from a police state tendency into back into a partners with shared input, refinements, field tests, and then make the changes necessary. Massachusetts overreacted to the COVID experience.

[00:29:18] It decided as. It wasn’t alone in this decision that students based on COVID should not be in schools. Well, that they subsequently decided that that meant that the students not only ran at the health concerns, they suffered in their mental health and they regressed in their, their learning. So that was a, instead of a local L private coach, it was a state.

[00:29:42] Mandated directive, which the state has subsequently discovered was in error. We should benefit from these types of political decisions and not make the same mistake a second time. Okay. The second offer, I guess, for change is that I’m concerned that the lottery admissions process in the Commonwealth, Massachusetts hasn’t worked anywhere.

[00:30:04] And hasn’t been field tested in many places, so I’ll be open-minded to see if it works okay. But I would invite the state to have an independent, not a manufactured review of the impact of the lottery after a period of time. Let’s see, is it working? Did it work as intended? Are those of subsequent change need to be made?

[00:30:26] This is an example that is, whether it’s industry. Or education or politics, A willingness to make modification, to make amendments, adjustments, to acknowledge when you’re wrong, when you’re wrong, and then to redirect the effort. And the third change, I guess, is that The Commonwealth, Massachusetts, again, like many other states, is adjusting and struggling with its finances, mostly because of the unpredictable level of finances.

[00:30:54] And so Massachusetts has an option to do what they call nine C cuts. These are sudden adjustments during midyear, the cut back being planned and anticipated revenue to fund your school system. I would encourage state policy makers to be more conscientious. More cautious in anticipating it kind of prevents the need for midyear budget adjustments that are devastating to the plan’s environment.

[00:31:23] They bring fear to the employment, they bring fear to the parents as far as the support services that the education was intended to pl, it would just be more helpful to have greater. Anticipatory skill sets in that development. Those are my three, I guess.

[00:31:40] Walter Blanks: Yeah. That’s incredible. And I think each and every one of those would incredibly impact the educational landscape for students, not just in your state, but across the country.

[00:31:51] So thank you for that.

[00:31:53] Albert Cheng: Yeah. And thank you, Dr. Fitzpatrick for taking the time to share with us all the wisdom you’ve accumulated and all the observations you’ve made over many, many, many years in this line of work. So we’re, we’re grateful for you sharing your time with us.

[00:32:06] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Thank you. A couple final comments.

[00:32:08] One is that the state of Massachusetts is also toyed with state takeovers of local school systems. That hasn’t worked either, so I hope they revisit any tendency to do that and it, I feel compelled to encourage new leaders to aspire. This profession is incredibly. Rewarding the messages from students, parents, employers, and so many others, and the opportunity to work with organizations like the Pioneer Institute.

[00:32:34] I encourage others to consider accepting distress and responsibilities with the role because the rewards outweigh those. And just wanna say thank you again to the Pioneer Institute for its intellectual and its well-rooted, rationales that it’s advantage been a has and it’s fostered. It’s been a pleasure to work with you.

[00:32:54] Albert Cheng: We certainly appreciate that and, and once again, thank you so much for being with us on, on the show today.

[00:32:58] Dr. Michael Fitzpatrick: Thank you.

[00:33:12] Albert Cheng: Well, that was, uh, fun to do, wasn’t it, Walter?

[00:33:14] Walter Blanks: It really was. I love all of this conversation about vocational tech and just more ways to ensure that children are being educated and really prepared for the next stage of, of their lives. So it was a really great conversation.

[00:33:28] Albert Cheng: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let’s hope for more of this kind of stuff.

[00:33:32] Springing up across our country here. So great example. Great standard bear I guess, that we’ve been able to take a peek at. But hey, this is gonna bring us to the end of our show. And so let me leave everybody with the tweet of the week. This one comes from Education Next, and in this tweet, the text of school enrollment shifts five years after the pandemic.

[00:33:53] And this refers to a report in case you wanna know the latest statistics on what’s going on in terms of school enrollment. Lots of shift in and out of traditional public schools. We’ve seen private schools grow and you know, homeschooling at the same time, so there’s lots of churn going on. But check out the article linked in that tweet.

[00:34:13] And Walter, I wanna thank you for co-hosting with me this week.

[00:34:18] Walter Blanks: It was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:34:20] Albert Cheng: Yeah, yeah. Hope to do it again sooner than later. And of course, don’t forget to join us again next week for a brand new episode. I’m gonna have Dr. Juliette Barker, who is the acclaimed English biographer of the Bronte and Editor of the Bronte A Life and Letters.

[00:34:35] So be sure to tune in again and look forward to seeing you next time. Hey, it’s Albert Cheng here, and I just wanna thank you for listening to the Learning Curve podcast. If you’d like to support the podcast further, we’d invite you to donate to the Pioneer Institute at pioneerinstitute.org/donations.