All of the Above: Nick’s Year of Homeschool, Virtual High, Online College, and KaiPod Microschool

Nick G, KaiPod student Microschooling Journeys Interview edited for Clarity

[00:00:00] Mike Goldstein: Hey everybody. This is micro schooling journeys with me. Curious Mike. I’m here with Nick Gutierrez, a 15 year old. In New Hampshire.

Nick, you and I met a couple weeks ago at a KaiPod micro school. And what I saw when I observed you was a teenager really buckling down and productively doing your schoolwork. I want to circle back to that in a minute.

But to start: Could you tell us your homeschool origin story?

[00:00:55] Nick G: (Many years ago) I was enrolled in just my local elementary and the first day I was getting, like, bullied.

I have a Hispanic last name, so they put me in a only a Spanish speaking class, but English is my first language, so I had no idea what was going on.

And my parents found out a little later after I kept on saying I didn’t learn anything from school. They got furious, so they decided to pull me out.

And they asked me, what do you want? Do you want to be homeschooled? Or do you want to continue this and go into grade one and see how things go? And at the time, I didn’t really know. And I decided I wanted to go into homeschooling to see and try it out. Mainly because I didn’t really like waking up early and stuff.

That decision changed my whole life. It’s, it’s crazy because things would have been so different if I just said, “Oh, let me continue going to public school.”

Mike Goldstein: That’s just infuriating. And so, I can understand your parents putting that choice to you, but like you said, you’re just a little guy at that point. Do you even recall, besides thinking about, ah, getting up early, like, how did you process that?

[00:03:01] Nick G: At the time, I really didn’t think much about it.

Now I do, like, now it comes back to me, like, things could have been so much differently.  I wouldn’t have learned about the (online) college that I’m (enrolled) in right now, the program. I haven’t learned about any of these. I probably even would have met you and gone to Kaipod.

[00:03:22] Mike Goldstein: Back in elementary school, could you describe to us what was a typical homeschool day? What happened?

[00:03:44] Nick G: A typical homeschool day would, it’s me usually waking up at around like seven, eight.

My parents wanted me to wake up as like regular time for school.  I would get changed, I would do my morning routine, and then I would start school. We’ll try to go as much as possible from 9 to 12, and then 12, like, a break time. Usually, if I didn’t have that much homework, I would be finished by 12, but I would usually do extra so I could move up to the next curriculum.  That would usually take me just a couple of hours, so I would usually finish around like 1:30 or 2.

[00:05:27] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and so Nick, you’re now 15 years old, and you’re a sophomore at an online high school, and also a dual enrolled student at Arizona State.

Let’s take those two things apart, and then we’ll work in KaiPod as a micro school. So, first of all, your online high school, what is it?

[00:05:50] Nick G: Alright, so the name of the high school is VLACS. It’s an online charter school and I like it a lot because you can sign up for as many different classes as you want.

You can finish the class as early as you want. You can finish it as late as you want.

With one of my math classes the (typical student) workload was six to eight months and I finished it in four. Because I would just constantly continue working on it.

And my teacher was impressed.  She was like, wow, like you, you went through a quick, all the other students are still working on it.

Yeah, it’s pretty cool. You get free tutoring. Also, there’s office hours laid out for the instructors.  So, for example, if you have like a math or science question, you can go, and if they’re not online, you can always, there’s free tutoring 24 7. It could be the middle of the night, it can be the middle of the day, and you could get some help, which I really like that a lot.

[00:06:51] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, so you’re, you have two things going for you that make this type of situation pretty appealing, right?

One is you’re fairly self motivated. I mean, that comes across loud and clear, and so you’re able to get yourself to kind of productively work through the self paced curriculum.

And then the second thing is, you’re kind of the type of kid that mastery learning was sort of invented for, because as long as you’ve mastered the stuff, you get to go faster.

[00:07:22] And that’s been a real kind of unlock for you, it sounds like.  At VLACS do you take math, English, science, history? Are those the courses?

[00:07:39] Nick G: Well, I would say it’s pretty similar. I’ve asked my friends, like, that are in the same grade as me, like, oh, what are you learning?

[00:07:45] And sometimes they would say, oh, I’m learning about this. And I was like, wait a minute. I learned that last grade. That’s a little weird. And he’s, oh, well, maybe, um, it’s just like different and like times and different workloads and for different grades and stuff. Like, I mean, it’s a whole different system.

[00:08:38] Mike Goldstein: Got it. So, this is, it’s for, for our listeners.  VLACS is a virtual online school in New Hampshire. So, for you, Nick, it’s free. Kids from other states could enroll, but there’s tuition and so you have that free school, essentially, that’s, if you will, your public school.

Tell us a little bit about the Arizona State component. Is that essentially offered through your online high school, or is it almost like a separate thing that you’re also enrolled in?

[00:09:15] Nick G: So, with VLACS, they offer dual enrollment with, um, different, like, colleges and universities, and Arizona State is one of them. So, My mom actually figured it out and she told me about it. She was like, “Hey, Nick, I have another friend that has a son that’s the same age as you that does this program between VLACS and Arizona State.

[00:09:37] And I was shocked. I was like, “Oh, wow.” So we looked more into it and I got enrolled.  I do a regular high school courses and I do regular college courses…all on the Canvas platform.

[00:10:09] Mike Goldstein: Got it. So the actual experience becomes easy because you know just how to click here to get this type of help, or just where the syllabus is going to be, or where the coming exams are, all that kind of stuff, you’re using the exact same platform.

[00:10:24] Canvas is a very popular learning platform, but there’s other ones, so it’s worked out nicely that they happen to be the same. And tell us Nick, what is one of the courses you’re taking at Arizona State?

[00:10:36] Nick G: So I’m taking a couple actually, um, I’m taking a English 101 class. I just finished a bio, uh, a bio 101 class.

[00:10:46] I believe I have a history 108, um, I think that’s what it’s called. And I’m not 100 percent remembering all these numbers, so I’m trying to kind of assume. And then I have a different one that I enrolled in just recently. It’s a project management type of class.

[00:11:07] Mike Goldstein: And Nick, when you take like a biology 101 class, is that essentially instead of taking a biology class at VLAC’s online high school, essentially you take that one and it counts for both?

[00:11:21] Nick G: Yes, that’s the great part about it. Yeah.

[00:11:23] Mike Goldstein: Got it. And just so I can picture it, is it like Tuesdays and Thursdays at 11 am you tune into a live class or is everything pre recorded and you take the class whenever you feel like it?

[00:11:47] Nick G: So there’s different classes with ASU. It could be either self paced or it could be, um, like there’s just, it’s a traditional, like there’s deadlines and stuff.

But there’s no lectures that I have to attend: “Oh, it’s Tuesday or Oh, it’s Friday, I really have to attend this lecture.”

[00:12:11] Mike Goldstein: Yeah. So, in other words, there’s no live class that you’re experiencing.

Is there any live experience, like you mentioned, you know, sometimes online tutoring can be available. Is there anything where it looks like what you and I are doing right now (Talking live)? Where you connect with a professor or a tutor or something, and you say, “hey, I don’t understand the mitochondria and how they power the cell.”

[00:13:23] Nick G: So pretty much with the tutoring and helping in ASU. It’s more like a, like a discussion, how you described. It’s just, it could be just you and them texting and stuff on, on like a, the canvas and on the tutoring section, they just have that little chat box. And with VLACs, there’s Zoom meetings that you can attend with one of the tutors, if you feel comfortable with it, of course, instead of just a regular old chat box.

[00:13:52] Mike Goldstein: Got it. Okay, great. So, I think we have a picture of, you’re a fairly self motivated student, you’re dual enrolled.  You told me earlier your hope when you, that when you turn 18, by the time you’re 18, you’ll have finished a degree, an undergraduate degree at Arizona State, so when many of your traditional school friends are leaving for college, you’re hoping at that time that you’ll have earned, you know, an online degree from ASU, which is really cool.

Now I want to bring this KaiPod micro school in. So it seems like a couple days a week, you work from possibly the room where you’re sitting right now, and a couple days a week, you go in person to the KaiPod micro school. Tell, tell us about, how did you hear about KaiPod? What is it?

[00:14:42] Nick G: So, I figured out KaiPod from the same mom of my friend that does ASU, their younger brother goes to Kaipod.  So we enrolled and so far I, I like it a lot. It’s, it’s pretty fun.

[00:15:28] Mike Goldstein: What I saw when I went to visit a couple weeks ago was a few rooms, you and some other guys were sitting, essentially older students, six or seven of you, were working independently on laptops in one room.

[00:15:46] There were some younger students in another room and basically each of you, I think there were 14 kids there that day, each of you working on different stuff. You’ve described what your workload is, the online high school in Arizona State, but other Kaipod kids were doing entirely different things. And so, you get the benefit of having other kids there.

What’s the socialization benefit for you to have a place to go like that?

[00:16:17] Nick G: So, for a social benefit, I would say that I got to meet a lot of different people. There’s some people that I knew before and some people that I had no idea that I made good friends with.

One thing that I do wish is that there would be a lot more kids in our age group, because there’s some people that are older, 16 to like, almost 18, and then there’s some people that are young, that are 12 to like, well, I think the youngest is 13, or even 14, but there’s nobody like, for certain age groups.

It’s a good social benefit if you’re looking to make like a bunch of friends, just if you don’t care about the age and stuff, yeah, it’s, it’s pretty nice.

[00:17:08] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, and one, one thing down the road, this may be more of a question for your mom, I’m not sure.

So you’re enrolled in an online school. And so from the point of view of the state of New Hampshire, they pay VLACs, which then does not charge you. That’s how the main way you’re getting educated.

When I visited, you mentioned it’s $500 per course at ASU.  So there’s $500 in cash that either you or your family somehow has to give to ASU once you’ve done all the work and you’ve passed their assessment, to move that course onto your official transcript. And so, you mentioned, I think, you do some part time work at a local 7 Eleven or a convenience store or something like that.

And then, for now, until through this year, I think there was some kind of state grant in New Hampshire that paid for KaiPod. After that, I think that grant is expiring. So going forward, there’s this question of, wow, okay, you’ve got both tuition costs for Arizona state, you’ve got Kaipod tuition.

Is that something your family is going to be able to navigate?

[00:18:52] Nick G: Well, from what I know is KaiPod is not going to be free like the state grant runs out for next year, so more than likely I’m not going to be attending it, but what I will continue to be doing is my college work and my regular high school work.

I work at a, like a convenience store, like a local 7 Eleven. I do, but I’m like contributing like mainly to my schooling because my parents said that. They want to teach me the value of money and they want to teach me value of this course.  So they do not want to financially help me with my courses because they want to teach me that there’s a bunch of other kids when they were in college, they would go out partying, they would take the course for granted all this crazy stuff that they would do other than just dedicating some time to do your work.  So I think it’s a good, uh, parenting lesson.

[00:19:57] Mike Goldstein: I’m sure all of our listeners are reacting very positively to you because they have their own (kids), and you come across as very independent, mature and responsible.

You’re a kid, but like, it’s impressive. So I think that’s great that you have that and your parents have instilled that in you. I

A good new development is this idea of an education savings account, which is going to allow the state to pay for some kids to go to a micro school like KaiPod.  So for some of your friends at KaiPod New Hampshire in Nashua, if the essentially would be able to pay for the tuition with money from the  government of New Hampshire, via ESA.

However, in your case, you’re not just going to KaiPod, you’re also enrolled at  VLACs. So the state’s saying: “We’re not going to pay twice, we’re going to pay only for VLACs, and that doesn’t make you eligible for this second piece of money.”

In your case, what would really help you actually to continue at KaiPod is if you are allowed to have an education savings account to pay for that, and at the same time, you could continue to go to VLACS for free. And in this case, you’re saying, well, I got to keep the online charter, so I might have to put KaiPod on hold.

[00:21:59] If KaiPod remained free to you, would you go there next year and the year after?

[00:22:06] Nick G: That’s a good question, because from some of the kids that I heard that went last year, they said it wasn’t the greatest, the teachers were different, they got like subs and stuff. I don’t know if I’d be going next year, actually.  If it was up to me, I would say: Probably no.

[00:22:26] Mike Goldstein: So that’s interesting. I guess I didn’t expect that answer, so now I’m, like, more curious.

Do you find you’re productive when you’re there? Or do you, compared to, if you have a Monday at home and a Tuesday at KaiPod, do you get about the same amount of learning done, or is one place better or worse for learning?

Nick G: I’d say at home is way better because I get a more silenced environment. At Kaipod there is some talking in the classroom, and sometimes kids will be done with their homework, then they’ll stay in the classroom and make noise for a bunch of the other kids. And it does get annoying over time, and I feel like there needs to be more of a I wouldn’t say Disciplinary, but like more rules and more stricter when it comes to school work because I feel like that’s something that is crucial to Kaipod is that you go there for schooling and then eventually there’s a time and place for everything for social activity than enrichment.

But yeah, I feel like at home, it’s more better. I have all my supplies and stuff. It’s much more easier. But at KaiPod, I feel like there is some obstacles that you will have to go through.

[00:23:42] Mike Goldstein: Tell us about Zach and Meghan, who are the guides, the two adults, um, at your pod.

[00:23:48] Nick G: Oh, they’re amazing. I love both of them so much. They’re amazing compared to the teachers that I got at the summer camp.  My friend says they’re beyond amazing from the teachers last year. I feel like they’re more understanding. They’re willing to listen and they’re willing to hear you out on everything.

[00:24:09] They’re more, I would say, professional than the other ones during the summer camp – with those I felt super uncomfortable. All of the kids were really uncomfortable because one of the teachers could either be on a really great mood today and say, Yeah, you guys do whatever you want.

[00:24:30] And according to my friend last year, that had a lot of what seemed favorites within the class. She would let some people slide. She would be extremely strict with some other people. And then the other teacher for the younger pod, was just no fun from what I’ve heard. Like, very strict to the point where it’s, if you even talk once, “You’re gonna get a call to your mom.”

But yeah, this is why I love the teachers now. They’re much more fun. You could talk to them. You could strike up a conversation. They’re more, um, they’re more friendly. I love that about them.

[00:25:04] Mike Goldstein: And so if you knew, for example, that you would have Zach and Meghan again, as the guides for next year.

[00:25:11] Would that affect your desire to want to go to KaiPod next year or not?

[00:25:15] Nick G: Yeah, I would say I would like to go if Meghan and Zach were there. Yes, of course. If it was different teachers, I’m not comfortable with them unless I meet them like an open house, kind of.

[00:25:25] Mike Goldstein: Yeah, I think so. That’s to be one of the interesting things about the micro school.

Most kids in a typical 10th grade have six teachers: math, English, science, history, foreign language, maybe gym or something like that.

They’ll say: A ouple of the teachers are great.  A couple of teachers I really don’t like.  A couple are in the middle.

Whereas your point is so interesting: one full year we might have the teachers we don’t like. And then the next year it’s all like the best teachers.  It’s more of a lurching from the extremes.

Zach and Meghan, when I visited, I found them impressive in how they connected with all the kids.  glad that you’re seeing it that way as well.

One thing I guess to leave on, I think you’re trying to get your bachelor’s in business administration at ASU.

Do you have a guess of age 18, you graduate high school, hopefully you’ve finished this degree in business administration, what would be next for you?

[00:27:31] Nick G: Well, my career and my whole goal in life is to, I want to build wealth. I want to build generational wealth, actually.

[00:27:38] So I feel like there’s a lot of different ways you can go at that, trying to achieve that goal.  If you want to build generational wealth, you have to have at least multiple streams of income.

I’m definitely doing investing, like currently right now, I have, an account where pretty much your parents and you are connected to the same account. You make investing decisions.  Then I want to do real estate as my main career. And then business administration, so I want to kind of juggle those two around and see how well it goes, whether I should pursue one or the other.

I’ve met different people that have had success in their real estate business. And they always tell me like, “Gotta be ready to get your hands dirty, gotta be sure about everything,” all this great stuff and advice.

[00:29:05] Mike Goldstein: Nick, love your energy and your sort of sense of forward direction. You have a lot of optimism, a classic American Dream: I’m going to make it, I’m going to get it done. All of that spirit is really appealing to listen to, so congrats on what you’ve achieved so far. Thank you.

[00:29:27] And thanks for sharing your story on Microschooling Journeys.